Para_bombs : calyxa Bernard aktati
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calyxa: hola
18.18.26 Bernard: Hi Calixa
18.18.26 aktati: Hi caly
18.18.48 aktati: I came and was all alone for a while LOL
calyxa: that's usually how it works
18.19.29 Bernard: What is the sceduled time for the EuroVox?
18.19.36 aktati: But I hung on this time...I'm glad
calyxa: due to start in 45 minutes, I believe
18.19.49 Bernard: Ok
18.20.04 aktati: 17gmt ? or 18 ?
calyxa: 19
calyxa: the time in GMT (UTC) should be displayed at the top of the 'vox window (tho it calculates it from your system time...)
calyxa: and of course on this system, I've got my time set to NZ time...
18.21.15 Bernard: Yes. Seems to have problems with the font size.
calyxa: you can change the font size in the upper window by clicking in the upper window and then typing the + sign.
18.21.45 aktati: It's 18.56 on mine
calyxa: there are two - one in black in the very top should be counting. one in green tells when you connected.
18.22.25 Bernard: The font size problem is for the time displayed on the title bar.
calyxa: oh.. hmm. well, upload a screenshot to the tester area... tho 'vox is a pretty low priority at the moment..
18.23.15 Bernard: I'll di it
18.23.47 aktati: Clocks went forward in the uk last weekend so I've got 19.22
calyxa: clocks went backward in NZ two weeks ago... they go forward here next week.
18.24.37 aktati: All too confusing !
18.24.39 Bernard: The time displayed is UTC, so it should not matter.
calyxa: this global time thing still needs work, huh
calyxa: since the UTC in 'vox is calculated from your system time... it isn't always right.
18.25.47 Bernard: It is right for me now, at least
calyxa: so here, with ugly artifacts and all, is a render I made using a New Node that I hand-coded myself w/ the SDK (well, and a lot of help from Craig...) - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/gettingthere.jpg
18.26.58 Bernard: cool. When we simple users would be able to use the SDK?
18.27.29 aktati: Giants causeway....great !
calyxa: I'm not sure... there's still a few classes missing from the doc. then we need to decide how we're going to distribute the doc. and Craig needs to round up some more sample code.
18.28.13 Bernard: I cannot wait.
18.28.39 aktati: I wanted to ask how to edit the pbomb sky ?
calyxa: do you have MS VC++?
calyxa: there needs to be a cloud layer in the world first, then the cloud icon in the PB should edit it.
calyxa: the backdrop and atmosphere cannot be affected inside a PB, tho.
18.30.44 aktati: Thanks C, I just couldn't seem to get it to register anything
18.30.53 Bernard: I'm trying to avoid microsoft products. I'm using BloodShed Dev C++. This development environment is capable to generate standard DLLs
18.31.42 Bernard: Is there major dependencies to MS VC++?
calyxa: yes...
18.32.17 Bernard: What kind of ?
calyxa: Craig says, "The minute we try and support a dev environment that we're not using here, it's time for pain and suffering all round."
calyxa: I don't know.
calyxa: all I know is "pain and suffering"
18.33.05 aktati: LOL
18.33.50 Bernard: OK. So I will try it and, if "pain and suffering", I will manage to install MS VC++
calyxa: will it open MS VC++ workspaces?
18.35.32 aktati: I am only a doc of medicine so am ignorant of all this : ) LOL !
18.35.41 Bernard: I don't no. I suppose it doesn't.
calyxa: it's apparently in the 'workspace' file that all the compiler options are stored.
calyxa: I'd imagine if you had the two side-by-side, you could get it figured out.
calyxa: and then you could write a tutorial! ;)
18.37.39 Bernard: If the problem is for compiler options, I'm confident I can master this. You know, my name is Hacker, Krummen Hacker! :-)
18.38.22 aktati: Great stuff !
calyxa: "compiler options" is the phrase Craig most often uses when he's talking about that "pain and suffering" so yeah, I'll bet you can figure it out.
18.39.16 Bernard: Yes, compiler options are one of the most obscure things in programming.
calyxa: I was pretty thrilled the first time I made it work, that's for sure.
18.39.45 Bernard: Every compiler has its own set of compiler options
18.41.05 aktati: B, did you use a terrain patch for your recent pic ? in 3dc
18.41.33 Bernard: Which picture?
18.41.48 aktati: The mesh rotation one
18.42.32 Bernard: The quantum fluctuations?
18.42.39 aktati: yep
calyxa: bah, I'm getting a DNS error from 3dc.
18.43.18 aktati: me too !
calyxa: ah well, "try again later" as they say.
18.43.59 Bernard: No at all. me too
calyxa: did you guys see the pictures from the Game Developer's Conference?
18.44.22 aktati: no
18.44.26 Bernard: no
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/GDC/
calyxa: there's Mo and me and Codini and Daulton....
18.44.47 Bernard: Oh, yes, I did.
18.45.05 aktati: Having a look now
calyxa: it was a fun time, though exhausting.
18.45.55 aktati: It's great to see you all
18.46.30 Bernard: The quantum fluct. is pure ProUI. In fact, it is a rectangular grid that is rotated around some points. The center point and the rotation angle is given by fractals.
calyxa: is the rotate node still backwards?
18.47.34 Bernard: Don't know. For this quasy random stuff, I didn't bother.
18.47.51 aktati: Wondering how you got the grid? Is the R node backwards LOL ?
calyxa: I can just picture Craig at his desk using the right-hand rule with his left hand.
calyxa: I'd imagine the grid is a simplified airport construct of constants and curves and multiply nodes?
18.49.18 Bernard: Yes!
18.49.30 Bernard: Very simplified.
18.49.32 aktati: Oh somthing simple then HeHe
18.50.27 Bernard: I will never again do something as complicated as the airport. I had nightmares after that.
calyxa: after looking at the airport, anything with fewer than 50 nodes is "simple"
18.51.04 Bernard: Personally, I put the limt aroud 150
18.51.43 Bernard: 3dc is back
calyxa: with the SDK, you'll probably be able to write an airport node ;)
18.52.13 aktati: LOL ...Love your work ! I'm going to have to leave now as family duty calls : (
calyxa: we'll say 'hi' to Mo for you (I'm hoping he'll be here soon!)
18.52.38 Bernard: This is one of the many ideas I have
18.52.54 aktati: Bye all : D !
18.53.00 Bernard: Bye
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18.53.48 Bernard: Calyxa, could you descibe a bit your experience with the SDK?
calyxa: sure...
calyxa: Craig sent doc and sample code...
calyxa: and a bunch of header files, of course.
calyxa: I got MS VC++ from my brother ...
18.54.52 Bernard: What is your programming background?
calyxa: the code samples are for an Altitude node and a Noise node (which simply evaluates a basis function w/o making it into a fractal)
calyxa: heh, I've written "hello world" in 10 different languages.
calyxa: I've studied LISP independantly... C and C++ and Java at a local community college...
calyxa: dabbled in a lot of different things.
calyxa: never worked on a project this big before, tho.
18.56.47 Bernard: Ok. I wondered if you were a pure graphic artist or if you were a computer geek?
calyxa: "yes"
calyxa: I'm happy when I know when to use -> instead of .
18.58.37 Bernard: So, with the SDK, you wrote a noise node, right?
calyxa: no, it's a function node.
calyxa: Mo sent me the code for the Voronoi noise, he wants a "simple" modification to it... I'm still pondering that one.
calyxa: the function I wrote divides the world up into cubes, finds the center of that cube, assigns the terrain around it in a circle to have the same height as the center of the cube... and the areas in between are unaffected.
19.00.51 Bernard: Ok. I see.
calyxa: the parameters it takes are a world space node (could take a helper space here), a height field function, a value in meters for the size of the cubes, and a "weight" value to determine how much of the area gets filled by the circle.
19.01.38 Bernard: I can see the Graph. :-)
calyxa: I'd have to send you the .dll as well, otherwise you'd get "unable to load plugged object"
19.02.20 Bernard: thanks.
19.03.23 Bernard: What I want to do is to spread multiple instances of an object based on a space convolution noise or fractal.
calyxa: that'll be great!
19.04.31 Bernard: Yes. But I don't know if it will be possible to do it. If at least I had a draft of the SDK docs...
19.04.56 Bernard: I could figure what is really possible, and what is not.
calyxa: if Mo shows up, we can ask him... I'm almost ready to just send you the PDF I made... but I'd rather check w/ Mo first.
19.06.24 Bernard: Would be great.
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calyxa: hi, linda!
19.07.05 Bernard: Hi Linda
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calyxa: hi, reney!
19.07.47 Bernard: Hi reney
19.08.00 fractalinda: Hi caly and Bernard! Just figgered this out. Well, almost.
calyxa: almost? what's missing?
19.08.19 mojoreney: I'm still fubbling. -Irene-
19.08.29 fractalinda: Just one channel, one topic..yes?
calyxa: for now, but you could make another.
calyxa: you can be in up to 5 channels at once.
19.09.06 fractalinda: Nah..I'd like to learn about par bombs..so I'll mostly listen
19.09.14 mojoreney: Me too!
calyxa: we've actually been talking about the SDK, but if you've got PB questions, go ahead and ask!
calyxa: Bernard, I sent you a zip file w/ the dll and the mjw...
19.10.05 fractalinda: SDK..sorry, I'm still learning the lingo..?
calyxa: Software Developer's Kit
calyxa: it's a way for people to write their own nodes and functions and stuff.
19.10.27 Bernard: I received it. Thanks.
19.10.55 mojoreney: Dumb Q time: What's the keyboard command to exit MJW?
calyxa: control-Q
19.11.12 mojoreney: Thanks!
calyxa: it's a mac-ism...
19.11.44 fractalinda: Oh..THAT! yeah, right..I'll join right in. Waaay beyond me at this point..still need to learn the basic geometry.
19.12.27 Bernard: It is more an everything else than MS-ism
calyxa: I'll be right back...
19.13.31 Bernard: Linda, did you already played with PBs?
19.13.37 mojoreney: Have you used parameter bomb at all?
19.14.18 fractalinda: You know..I do have a question about displacement maps..Is it possible to bring textures into MJW ..I see that it is for moon mats, but how about for terrains? No, haven't used PB's yet..
calyxa: back.
19.14.47 mojoreney: Yes
calyxa: in 1.2, there's an "import terrain" menu item in the PB editor
calyxa: I haven't tried it yet, but I believe it simplifies the stuff I have in my tutorial on using bitmap height fields
19.15.47 fractalinda: I'll check that out. Thanks Calyxa
calyxa: Mo's on his way.
calyxa: "I was in there at 11 am my time and no-one was there!"
19.16.49 fractalinda: ..and is there a way to bring in textures I've already effected w/o using a par bomb?
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calyxa: yo, Mo!
19.17.11 Bernard: Hi Mo
19.17.13 mojoreney: I just used the import terrain to import my Serape pic. Should make for a bizzare result.
19.17.16 docmojo: Howdy!
19.17.20 docmojo: I'm just losing it here.
19.17.24 fractalinda: Hi docmo!
19.17.29 mojoreney: Hi Doc!
19.17.34 docmojo: I was one 3 hours ago, wondering "where is everyone???"
calyxa: linda, when you say textures, do you mean terrain heightfields or do you mean material colors?
19.17.52 docmojo: "on 3 hours ago"
19.18.08 fractalinda: I mean both, i guess..
19.18.12 Bernard: It was not clear at what time the EuroVox was scheduled.
19.18.31 docmojo: I was using west coast time, not east coast time...
19.18.33 fractalinda: material colors mostly
calyxa: if you bring in a terrain heightfield w/o a PB, then you get a copy at each pole (well, offset from each pole)... it's not very easy to control.
calyxa: I haven't played much w/ bitmaps as colors... so "I don't know" right now :)
19.19.09 Bernard: I think UTC should be the rule.
calyxa: yes, but w/ the time change happening for people at different times, even UTC is confusing.
19.19.33 fractalinda: Yes..I can see that might be a problem..OK, thanks
calyxa: so, Mo, here's that pic I made last night w/ my New Node! http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/gettingthere.jpg
19.19.57 docmojo: Indeed. But we Americans are...hopeless... ;-)
calyxa: full of vertical edges so it's full of artifacts... sigh.
19.20.09 docmojo: We built MW around UTC for this very reason!
19.20.11 Bernard: No Comment!
19.20.20 fractalinda: Lol..I'm glad I'm not the only one..
19.20.46 docmojo: Wow--so what does the new node do?
19.21.00 docmojo: (That new Voronoi should be great, BTW...)
calyxa: it's a variant on Craig's old "PinHead" node from the pre-alpha
19.21.23 docmojo: Everyone: Caly is testing out the new SDK. It'll be out soon!
calyxa: I have yet to figure out how that code knows when it's using distance versus distance squared...
19.21.41 fractalinda: That's a very cool effect Calyxa!!
19.21.51 Bernard: When, When, When?
19.21.52 docmojo: Never played with PinHead...
calyxa: it needs work...
calyxa: the old PinHead was very tempermental and would crash at the slightest provocation.
19.22.31 mojoreney: Would be even neater if water was cascading down those pads.
19.22.40 docmojo: Hey, Bernard, you could help us to refine it. If Caly'll send you what she has...
calyxa: I was just waiting for your OK, Mo. should I send him the whole shebang?
19.23.06 docmojo: So this is PinHead Robusto?
19.23.13 docmojo: "Why not."
19.23.22 docmojo: (Then DUCK AND COVER!)
19.23.24 Bernard: Great! My mailbox is full open for it!
19.23.25 docmojo: ;-)
calyxa: maybe not 'robusto' but it's mine ;)
19.24.11 docmojo: Gratifying, isn't it, witing code?
19.24.41 docmojo: Me, I'm doing new buttons for our web site in Photoshop.
19.25.00 docmojo: So much for my fancy PhD in 3D graphics... >;^)
19.25.03 mojoreney: How about some buttons for MJW?
calyxa: heheh!
calyxa: OK, Bernard, SDK incoming!
19.25.23 docmojo: What kind of buttons, mojoreny?
19.25.40 mojoreney: I still dislike the whole interface.
19.25.43 fractalinda: I'm off..and I've learned two major tidbits re PB's and displacement maps. Thanks Calyxa and all! See you on the flip side. :)
19.25.43 docmojo: My next coding project is Randomize buttons for textures and materials.
calyxa: take care, linda!
19.26.02 mojoreney: Should be fun!
19.26.05 docmojo: See ya, Linda! Keep up the great work!
19.26.14 Bernard: Cal, I loaded gettingthere.mjw. . it is rendering now. Thanks for the SDK. I think. I'll not sleep much these days.
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calyxa: heh heh!
19.27.08 docmojo: We're going to make it all easier to use in the next version, mojoreny. But the look will remain the same; we can't redo that at this point.
19.27.34 docmojo: I figure we need a new UI layer with less controls, with more obvious functionality.
19.27.36 Bernard: SDK arrived. Yeeeah!
19.27.45 mojoreney: Too many window levels now.
19.28.04 docmojo: I can hear the rumblings in Switzerland already.... :-)
19.28.08 mojoreney: BTW, this is Irene.
19.28.26 docmojo: Hey, Irene! Thanks for tetlling me!
19.28.35 docmojo: "telling me"
19.28.50 docmojo: What do you mean "too many levels"?
calyxa: B, please copy me on any questions you send to Craig ;)
19.29.44 Bernard: No problem, Cal. I'll do it.
19.29.54 mojoreney: Gotta click on too many things to get to finally change a color or parameter. Looks at all you have to do to texture map an im,port.
19.30.11 mojoreney: Geez, I type crappy.
19.30.24 docmojo: Me, too!
19.30.42 docmojo: I haven't even tried that.
calyxa: depending on the model format, a lot of the diffuse color info should get imported automagically
19.31.02 docmojo: Bitmap textures are cheating, to a Proceduralist like me... ;-)
19.31.50 mojoreney: Yah, but to put more life into a MJ scene, you need to import objects or do it in post.
19.32.08 mojoreney: I've been using post because it's easier by far.
calyxa: 3ds should have the bitmap filenames stored internally. obj files should have associated .mtl files that specify which bitmaps to use.
19.32.38 docmojo: We'll need to clean that up in the future, then.
19.32.45 mojoreney: Yes, but aren't transparencies screwed up or did that get fix his last time?
19.32.51 docmojo: MojoWorlds are really just a place to put stuff, after all.
calyxa: transparency info isn't written to the .mtl file -- I don't know how Poser is supposed to work without it, but it just isn't there.
19.33.25 docmojo: Part of the problem is that our object import/export code was written by a kid right out of school.
calyxa: it'd be nice if diffuse colors on imports came in as Generator textures and not Pro UI function graphs...
calyxa: that takes out one level of window clicking right there.
19.34.46 mojoreney: 3DS files import fine with textures. The HMS Victory model looks great! However, I couldn't figure out how to remove the extra sails in MJ.