Para_bombs : calyxa Bernard aktati
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calyxa: hola
18.18.26 Bernard: Hi Calixa
18.18.26 aktati: Hi caly
18.18.48 aktati: I came and was all alone for a while LOL
calyxa: that's usually how it works
18.19.29 Bernard: What is the sceduled time for the EuroVox?
18.19.36 aktati: But I hung on this time...I'm glad
calyxa: due to start in 45 minutes, I believe
18.19.49 Bernard: Ok
18.20.04 aktati: 17gmt ? or 18 ?
calyxa: 19
calyxa: the time in GMT (UTC) should be displayed at the top of the 'vox window (tho it calculates it from your system time...)
calyxa: and of course on this system, I've got my time set to NZ time...
18.21.15 Bernard: Yes. Seems to have problems with the font size.
calyxa: you can change the font size in the upper window by clicking in the upper window and then typing the + sign.
18.21.45 aktati: It's 18.56 on mine
calyxa: there are two - one in black in the very top should be counting. one in green tells when you connected.
18.22.25 Bernard: The font size problem is for the time displayed on the title bar.
calyxa: oh.. hmm. well, upload a screenshot to the tester area... tho 'vox is a pretty low priority at the moment..
18.23.15 Bernard: I'll di it
18.23.47 aktati: Clocks went forward in the uk last weekend so I've got 19.22
calyxa: clocks went backward in NZ two weeks ago... they go forward here next week.
18.24.37 aktati: All too confusing !
18.24.39 Bernard: The time displayed is UTC, so it should not matter.
calyxa: this global time thing still needs work, huh
calyxa: since the UTC in 'vox is calculated from your system time... it isn't always right.
18.25.47 Bernard: It is right for me now, at least
calyxa: so here, with ugly artifacts and all, is a render I made using a New Node that I hand-coded myself w/ the SDK (well, and a lot of help from Craig...) - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/gettingthere.jpg
18.26.58 Bernard: cool. When we simple users would be able to use the SDK?
18.27.29 aktati: Giants causeway....great !
calyxa: I'm not sure... there's still a few classes missing from the doc. then we need to decide how we're going to distribute the doc. and Craig needs to round up some more sample code.
18.28.13 Bernard: I cannot wait.
18.28.39 aktati: I wanted to ask how to edit the pbomb sky ?
calyxa: do you have MS VC++?
calyxa: there needs to be a cloud layer in the world first, then the cloud icon in the PB should edit it.
calyxa: the backdrop and atmosphere cannot be affected inside a PB, tho.
18.30.44 aktati: Thanks C, I just couldn't seem to get it to register anything
18.30.53 Bernard: I'm trying to avoid microsoft products. I'm using BloodShed Dev C++. This development environment is capable to generate standard DLLs
18.31.42 Bernard: Is there major dependencies to MS VC++?
calyxa: yes...
18.32.17 Bernard: What kind of ?
calyxa: Craig says, "The minute we try and support a dev environment that we're not using here, it's time for pain and suffering all round."
calyxa: I don't know.
calyxa: all I know is "pain and suffering"
18.33.05 aktati: LOL
18.33.50 Bernard: OK. So I will try it and, if "pain and suffering", I will manage to install MS VC++
calyxa: will it open MS VC++ workspaces?
18.35.32 aktati: I am only a doc of medicine so am ignorant of all this : ) LOL !
18.35.41 Bernard: I don't no. I suppose it doesn't.
calyxa: it's apparently in the 'workspace' file that all the compiler options are stored.
calyxa: I'd imagine if you had the two side-by-side, you could get it figured out.
calyxa: and then you could write a tutorial! ;)
18.37.39 Bernard: If the problem is for compiler options, I'm confident I can master this. You know, my name is Hacker, Krummen Hacker! :-)
18.38.22 aktati: Great stuff !
calyxa: "compiler options" is the phrase Craig most often uses when he's talking about that "pain and suffering" so yeah, I'll bet you can figure it out.
18.39.16 Bernard: Yes, compiler options are one of the most obscure things in programming.
calyxa: I was pretty thrilled the first time I made it work, that's for sure.
18.39.45 Bernard: Every compiler has its own set of compiler options
18.41.05 aktati: B, did you use a terrain patch for your recent pic ? in 3dc
18.41.33 Bernard: Which picture?
18.41.48 aktati: The mesh rotation one
18.42.32 Bernard: The quantum fluctuations?
18.42.39 aktati: yep
calyxa: bah, I'm getting a DNS error from 3dc.
18.43.18 aktati: me too !
calyxa: ah well, "try again later" as they say.
18.43.59 Bernard: No at all. me too
calyxa: did you guys see the pictures from the Game Developer's Conference?
18.44.22 aktati: no
18.44.26 Bernard: no
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/GDC/
calyxa: there's Mo and me and Codini and Daulton....
18.44.47 Bernard: Oh, yes, I did.
18.45.05 aktati: Having a look now
calyxa: it was a fun time, though exhausting.
18.45.55 aktati: It's great to see you all
18.46.30 Bernard: The quantum fluct. is pure ProUI. In fact, it is a rectangular grid that is rotated around some points. The center point and the rotation angle is given by fractals.
calyxa: is the rotate node still backwards?
18.47.34 Bernard: Don't know. For this quasy random stuff, I didn't bother.
18.47.51 aktati: Wondering how you got the grid? Is the R node backwards LOL ?
calyxa: I can just picture Craig at his desk using the right-hand rule with his left hand.
calyxa: I'd imagine the grid is a simplified airport construct of constants and curves and multiply nodes?
18.49.18 Bernard: Yes!
18.49.30 Bernard: Very simplified.
18.49.32 aktati: Oh somthing simple then HeHe
18.50.27 Bernard: I will never again do something as complicated as the airport. I had nightmares after that.
calyxa: after looking at the airport, anything with fewer than 50 nodes is "simple"
18.51.04 Bernard: Personally, I put the limt aroud 150
18.51.43 Bernard: 3dc is back
calyxa: with the SDK, you'll probably be able to write an airport node ;)
18.52.13 aktati: LOL ...Love your work ! I'm going to have to leave now as family duty calls : (
calyxa: we'll say 'hi' to Mo for you (I'm hoping he'll be here soon!)
18.52.38 Bernard: This is one of the many ideas I have
18.52.54 aktati: Bye all : D !
18.53.00 Bernard: Bye
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18.53.48 Bernard: Calyxa, could you descibe a bit your experience with the SDK?
calyxa: sure...
calyxa: Craig sent doc and sample code...
calyxa: and a bunch of header files, of course.
calyxa: I got MS VC++ from my brother ...
18.54.52 Bernard: What is your programming background?
calyxa: the code samples are for an Altitude node and a Noise node (which simply evaluates a basis function w/o making it into a fractal)
calyxa: heh, I've written "hello world" in 10 different languages.
calyxa: I've studied LISP independantly... C and C++ and Java at a local community college...
calyxa: dabbled in a lot of different things.
calyxa: never worked on a project this big before, tho.
18.56.47 Bernard: Ok. I wondered if you were a pure graphic artist or if you were a computer geek?
calyxa: "yes"
calyxa: I'm happy when I know when to use -> instead of .
18.58.37 Bernard: So, with the SDK, you wrote a noise node, right?
calyxa: no, it's a function node.
calyxa: Mo sent me the code for the Voronoi noise, he wants a "simple" modification to it... I'm still pondering that one.
calyxa: the function I wrote divides the world up into cubes, finds the center of that cube, assigns the terrain around it in a circle to have the same height as the center of the cube... and the areas in between are unaffected.
19.00.51 Bernard: Ok. I see.
calyxa: the parameters it takes are a world space node (could take a helper space here), a height field function, a value in meters for the size of the cubes, and a "weight" value to determine how much of the area gets filled by the circle.
19.01.38 Bernard: I can see the Graph. :-)
calyxa: I'd have to send you the .dll as well, otherwise you'd get "unable to load plugged object"
19.02.20 Bernard: thanks.
19.03.23 Bernard: What I want to do is to spread multiple instances of an object based on a space convolution noise or fractal.
calyxa: that'll be great!
19.04.31 Bernard: Yes. But I don't know if it will be possible to do it. If at least I had a draft of the SDK docs...
19.04.56 Bernard: I could figure what is really possible, and what is not.
calyxa: if Mo shows up, we can ask him... I'm almost ready to just send you the PDF I made... but I'd rather check w/ Mo first.
19.06.24 Bernard: Would be great.
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calyxa: hi, linda!
19.07.05 Bernard: Hi Linda
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calyxa: hi, reney!
19.07.47 Bernard: Hi reney
19.08.00 fractalinda: Hi caly and Bernard! Just figgered this out. Well, almost.
calyxa: almost? what's missing?
19.08.19 mojoreney: I'm still fubbling. -Irene-
19.08.29 fractalinda: Just one channel, one topic..yes?
calyxa: for now, but you could make another.
calyxa: you can be in up to 5 channels at once.
19.09.06 fractalinda: Nah..I'd like to learn about par bombs..so I'll mostly listen
19.09.14 mojoreney: Me too!
calyxa: we've actually been talking about the SDK, but if you've got PB questions, go ahead and ask!
calyxa: Bernard, I sent you a zip file w/ the dll and the mjw...
19.10.05 fractalinda: SDK..sorry, I'm still learning the lingo..?
calyxa: Software Developer's Kit
calyxa: it's a way for people to write their own nodes and functions and stuff.
19.10.27 Bernard: I received it. Thanks.
19.10.55 mojoreney: Dumb Q time: What's the keyboard command to exit MJW?
calyxa: control-Q
19.11.12 mojoreney: Thanks!
calyxa: it's a mac-ism...
19.11.44 fractalinda: Oh..THAT! yeah, right..I'll join right in. Waaay beyond me at this point..still need to learn the basic geometry.
19.12.27 Bernard: It is more an everything else than MS-ism
calyxa: I'll be right back...
19.13.31 Bernard: Linda, did you already played with PBs?
19.13.37 mojoreney: Have you used parameter bomb at all?
19.14.18 fractalinda: You know..I do have a question about displacement maps..Is it possible to bring textures into MJW ..I see that it is for moon mats, but how about for terrains? No, haven't used PB's yet..
calyxa: back.
19.14.47 mojoreney: Yes
calyxa: in 1.2, there's an "import terrain" menu item in the PB editor
calyxa: I haven't tried it yet, but I believe it simplifies the stuff I have in my tutorial on using bitmap height fields
19.15.47 fractalinda: I'll check that out. Thanks Calyxa
calyxa: Mo's on his way.
calyxa: "I was in there at 11 am my time and no-one was there!"
19.16.49 fractalinda: ..and is there a way to bring in textures I've already effected w/o using a par bomb?
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calyxa: yo, Mo!
19.17.11 Bernard: Hi Mo
19.17.13 mojoreney: I just used the import terrain to import my Serape pic. Should make for a bizzare result.
19.17.16 docmojo: Howdy!
19.17.20 docmojo: I'm just losing it here.
19.17.24 fractalinda: Hi docmo!
19.17.29 mojoreney: Hi Doc!
19.17.34 docmojo: I was one 3 hours ago, wondering "where is everyone???"
calyxa: linda, when you say textures, do you mean terrain heightfields or do you mean material colors?
19.17.52 docmojo: "on 3 hours ago"
19.18.08 fractalinda: I mean both, i guess..
19.18.12 Bernard: It was not clear at what time the EuroVox was scheduled.
19.18.31 docmojo: I was using west coast time, not east coast time...
19.18.33 fractalinda: material colors mostly
calyxa: if you bring in a terrain heightfield w/o a PB, then you get a copy at each pole (well, offset from each pole)... it's not very easy to control.
calyxa: I haven't played much w/ bitmaps as colors... so "I don't know" right now :)
19.19.09 Bernard: I think UTC should be the rule.
calyxa: yes, but w/ the time change happening for people at different times, even UTC is confusing.
19.19.33 fractalinda: Yes..I can see that might be a problem..OK, thanks
calyxa: so, Mo, here's that pic I made last night w/ my New Node! http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/gettingthere.jpg
19.19.57 docmojo: Indeed. But we Americans are...hopeless... ;-)
calyxa: full of vertical edges so it's full of artifacts... sigh.
19.20.09 docmojo: We built MW around UTC for this very reason!
19.20.11 Bernard: No Comment!
19.20.20 fractalinda: Lol..I'm glad I'm not the only one..
19.20.46 docmojo: Wow--so what does the new node do?
19.21.00 docmojo: (That new Voronoi should be great, BTW...)
calyxa: it's a variant on Craig's old "PinHead" node from the pre-alpha
19.21.23 docmojo: Everyone: Caly is testing out the new SDK. It'll be out soon!
calyxa: I have yet to figure out how that code knows when it's using distance versus distance squared...
19.21.41 fractalinda: That's a very cool effect Calyxa!!
19.21.51 Bernard: When, When, When?
19.21.52 docmojo: Never played with PinHead...
calyxa: it needs work...
calyxa: the old PinHead was very tempermental and would crash at the slightest provocation.
19.22.31 mojoreney: Would be even neater if water was cascading down those pads.
19.22.40 docmojo: Hey, Bernard, you could help us to refine it. If Caly'll send you what she has...
calyxa: I was just waiting for your OK, Mo. should I send him the whole shebang?
19.23.06 docmojo: So this is PinHead Robusto?
19.23.13 docmojo: "Why not."
19.23.22 docmojo: (Then DUCK AND COVER!)
19.23.24 Bernard: Great! My mailbox is full open for it!
19.23.25 docmojo: ;-)
calyxa: maybe not 'robusto' but it's mine ;)
19.24.11 docmojo: Gratifying, isn't it, witing code?
19.24.41 docmojo: Me, I'm doing new buttons for our web site in Photoshop.
19.25.00 docmojo: So much for my fancy PhD in 3D graphics... >;^)
19.25.03 mojoreney: How about some buttons for MJW?
calyxa: heheh!
calyxa: OK, Bernard, SDK incoming!
19.25.23 docmojo: What kind of buttons, mojoreny?
19.25.40 mojoreney: I still dislike the whole interface.
19.25.43 fractalinda: I'm off..and I've learned two major tidbits re PB's and displacement maps. Thanks Calyxa and all! See you on the flip side. :)
19.25.43 docmojo: My next coding project is Randomize buttons for textures and materials.
calyxa: take care, linda!
19.26.02 mojoreney: Should be fun!
19.26.05 docmojo: See ya, Linda! Keep up the great work!
19.26.14 Bernard: Cal, I loaded gettingthere.mjw. . it is rendering now. Thanks for the SDK. I think. I'll not sleep much these days.
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calyxa: heh heh!
19.27.08 docmojo: We're going to make it all easier to use in the next version, mojoreny. But the look will remain the same; we can't redo that at this point.
19.27.34 docmojo: I figure we need a new UI layer with less controls, with more obvious functionality.
19.27.36 Bernard: SDK arrived. Yeeeah!
19.27.45 mojoreney: Too many window levels now.
19.28.04 docmojo: I can hear the rumblings in Switzerland already.... :-)
19.28.08 mojoreney: BTW, this is Irene.
19.28.26 docmojo: Hey, Irene! Thanks for tetlling me!
19.28.35 docmojo: "telling me"
19.28.50 docmojo: What do you mean "too many levels"?
calyxa: B, please copy me on any questions you send to Craig ;)
19.29.44 Bernard: No problem, Cal. I'll do it.
19.29.54 mojoreney: Gotta click on too many things to get to finally change a color or parameter. Looks at all you have to do to texture map an im,port.
19.30.11 mojoreney: Geez, I type crappy.
19.30.24 docmojo: Me, too!
19.30.42 docmojo: I haven't even tried that.
calyxa: depending on the model format, a lot of the diffuse color info should get imported automagically
19.31.02 docmojo: Bitmap textures are cheating, to a Proceduralist like me... ;-)
19.31.50 mojoreney: Yah, but to put more life into a MJ scene, you need to import objects or do it in post.
19.32.08 mojoreney: I've been using post because it's easier by far.
calyxa: 3ds should have the bitmap filenames stored internally. obj files should have associated .mtl files that specify which bitmaps to use.
19.32.38 docmojo: We'll need to clean that up in the future, then.
19.32.45 mojoreney: Yes, but aren't transparencies screwed up or did that get fix his last time?
19.32.51 docmojo: MojoWorlds are really just a place to put stuff, after all.
calyxa: transparency info isn't written to the .mtl file -- I don't know how Poser is supposed to work without it, but it just isn't there.
19.33.25 docmojo: Part of the problem is that our object import/export code was written by a kid right out of school.
calyxa: it'd be nice if diffuse colors on imports came in as Generator textures and not Pro UI function graphs...
calyxa: that takes out one level of window clicking right there.
19.34.46 mojoreney: 3DS files import fine with textures. The HMS Victory model looks great! However, I couldn't figure out how to remove the extra sails in MJ.
calyxa: you can't. MW isn't a model editing program...
19.35.31 mojoreney: Don't really want to edit. Just delete objects within a group.
calyxa: that's editing
19.35.57 mojoreney: What are the primatives in the generator for?
19.35.59 docmojo: We deliberately decided, at least for the beginning, to leave modeling to other programs.
19.36.07 docmojo: There are so many good ones already!
19.36.23 docmojo: We had to give you at least the basics...
19.36.30 mojoreney: Why?
19.36.38 docmojo: What do y'all think: Do we need Booleans?
calyxa: I use the primitive cube for scaling...
19.36.58 Bernard: Booleans? Yes, definitely!
19.37.08 mojoreney: Would make the primatives more useful
19.37.21 docmojo: You can make toroidal moons, cubic suns, and such weirdness...
19.37.59 docmojo: Booleans are hard for the RTR, but I've seen it done... By a student in Dunedin, no less!
19.38.16 mojoreney: I'm sure some folks would appreciate weirdness, but I've yet to see anyone use a cubic sun. :)
calyxa: I never posted mine.
19.38.29 docmojo: Me, either!
19.38.48 mojoreney: Did it look cool or just weird?
19.38.58 Bernard: I want toroidal atmospheres!
19.39.01 docmojo: I want Creep Clown as a moon!
19.39.14 mojoreney: Creep Clown?
19.39.18 docmojo: Well, go write one now, Bernadrd!
19.39.34 docmojo: I've thought about a Ringworld atmosphere...
calyxa: problem w/ Creepy as a moon is as soon as you apply him as a render object, he rotates to some unfriendly orientation
19.39.39 docmojo: The maths get weird.
19.40.10 docmojo: Looking at the soles of his big ol' feet? ;-)
19.40.13 Bernard: Don't know yet how to do it. I just at page 3 of the docs.
19.40.46 docmojo: You have to work out the volume integral over arbitrary ray paths.
19.41.08 docmojo: That's why MW's atmosphere breaks sometimes, as when you make it really thin.
19.41.16 docmojo: The maths just get out of control.
19.41.33 docmojo: Stuff you learn about when getting a PhD in Compuer Science.
19.41.44 docmojo: Weird stuff you thought you'd never see or need...
19.41.48 docmojo: D'OH!!!
calyxa: d'oh?
19.42.08 Bernard: Will try it anyway. Don't forget, my name is Hacker, Krummen Hacker!
19.42.19 docmojo: Bitten by weird, intractable theoretic problems.
19.42.35 docmojo: (That's the ozone hole: "catastrophic cancellation.")
19.42.41 mojoreney: Oh! You're the crooked one?
calyxa: not a sudden epiphany to solve it...
19.43.05 docmojo: Go for it, KH!
19.43.26 docmojo: You'll probably get some charmingly weird results.
calyxa: hehheh
19.44.05 Bernard: Whatever the result, there is fun ahead. :-)
calyxa: like I said, I was thrilled just to see the stuff show up after I'd built it.
19.44.36 docmojo: Azzolutely!
19.44.52 mojoreney: I just used my last render as a terrain map in the PB, Yikes! What do most folks use when you import?
calyxa: DEMs, text.
19.45.29 Bernard: Is there a way for a plugin to know if it runs under the Transporter or the Generator?
19.45.41 docmojo: KH: Try moving the center of the atmosphere a little away from teh center of the planet.
19.45.43 mojoreney: Ah! I forgot, does MJW import VistaPro DEM's or not?
19.45.52 docmojo: I'm looking for an image I did of that, long ago.
19.45.57 docmojo: Very strange and fun!
19.46.09 docmojo: "It should."
calyxa: since Transporter users can't get to editing, should I assume that you're asking Generator versus Pro UI? in which case, the answer is "yes"
19.46.17 docmojo: Should just be a DEM...
19.46.28 mojoreney: Yes, I
19.46.50 mojoreney: I'm gonna go run off and try that now! See ya! Bye!
19.46.58 docmojo: Have fun!
calyxa: different plugins will show up in different places in the Generator UI. it's only functions that need to have the flag as to whether they are Generator-compatible or not
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calyxa: an Atmosphere pluign will show up in the sky editor Atmosphere DDLB.
calyxa: plugin
19.49.25 Bernard: I want to put some licence protection. The plugin should enable an unregistered used to use it under the Transporter, but some restriction must apply in the Generator.
19.50.51 docmojo: What sort of restriction?
19.52.18 docmojo: You won't be able to "use" a plugin in anything but the Generator.
calyxa: generator users that d/l a planet using this plugin should get some sort of "I'm sorry, you need to pay for this plugin to edit it" msg when viewing the graph?
19.52.25 Bernard: Reduced features set, or maybe just an annoying popup when the plugin is loaded.
19.52.34 docmojo: You might see it's effects in the Transporter...
19.52.52 docmojo: I suppose you could hook up Hyperspace sliders to it's controls...
19.53.17 docmojo: Who gets full access and who doesn't?
19.53.56 Bernard: Many things to thinks about. I'll experiment.
calyxa: transporter users should be able to view and move sliders in worlds using the plugin. generator users should not be able to muck with it unless they've paid for it, I'm guessing?
19.54.28 docmojo: You can keep part or all of a plugin to yourself.
19.54.40 docmojo: What other people get is whatever you release.
19.54.51 docmojo: The plugins will ship as dll's.
calyxa: which means that most of them will be PC only...
19.55.14 docmojo: Probably.
19.55.21 docmojo: (sorry!0
19.55.25 docmojo: )
calyxa: tho if Code Warrior ever shows up here, I may offer myself as a "and if you send me your source code, I'll build it for Mac!" service
19.56.36 docmojo: Go for it!
19.56.50 Bernard: II want that registered users may build new worlds with the plugin. Unregistered users can only explore them.
19.57.39 docmojo: Ah, I suppose you could build in an unlocking code, much like with MW Trans. Pro.
calyxa: play with it for a few days, then "ask Craig" (don't forget to copy me, tho ;)
19.58.47 Bernard: Well, this protection scheme is not highest priority. I want to have fun with the SDK at first. :-)
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19.59.28 docmojo: You can always keep things to yourself.
calyxa: hey, ster!
19.59.33 ster: yo
19.59.36 docmojo: Hey, Ster!
19.59.38 Bernard: Hi ster
19.59.47 ster: ahh --- the brainiacs
19.59.56 ster: howdy all
calyxa: heh heh. and we're talking SDK, too
20.00.00 docmojo: But I think you should help us seed the community with some of your early experiments. ;-)
20.00.16 Bernard: Of course!
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20.00.25 docmojo: We're plotting Severe MojoWeirness. ;-)
20.00.26 ster: hi al
calyxa: w/b Al!
20.00.42 docmojo: Hey, Ak!
20.00.44 aktati: I'm back LOL fed the kids !
20.00.47 Bernard: But if I make an airport plugin, I will protect it.
20.00.48 ster: so its a eurohorde
20.00.50 docmojo: Good to have you here!
20.01.01 aktati: Hi all
20.01.11 docmojo: You're now turquiose.
20.01.14 ster: eA is incredible al
20.01.16 docmojo: (Don't ask my why.)
calyxa: flashback to wizard's tears, maybe?
20.01.38 docmojo: Did y'all know about coloring each Voxonaut?
calyxa: (speaking of food... I'll be right back...)
20.01.47 ster: no
20.01.57 aktati: Glad you like EA ...thanks to caly too
20.02.07 docmojo: Choose one at the upper left, then use the color dot to give their typing a color.
20.02.13 docmojo: Very handy!
20.02.31 docmojo: Ea is amazing. Quite the collaboration!
20.02.52 ster: yowser
20.03.08 docmojo: I'd like to see the contorls on such a plugin, KH!
20.03.09 ster: watch out
20.03.23 aktati: No colors seen by me in txt?
20.03.29 ster: groovy
20.03.33 docmojo: We're releasing the Real Version of Jim Bardeen's rivers plugin with teh SDK.
20.03.41 docmojo: That will be very cool...
20.03.43 ster: you mean w/ real fractals
20.03.49 ster: no bitmap bullshit
20.03.57 docmojo: You have to assign the colors locally, Ak.
20.04.05 aktati: ok ta
20.04.06 docmojo: It's a strictly local thing. :-(
20.04.33 docmojo: I have KH as a kind of blood red... ;-)
20.04.40 ster: oh you mean only i see my colors
20.04.45 docmojo: Ster is orange.
20.04.53 docmojo: Clay is yaller.
20.04.57 docmojo: Caly
20.05.10 docmojo: And I'm an unreadable shade of blue.
calyxa: back. if you save your 'vox log, it'll have the colors in it. so, you all see my colors when I post transcripts.
20.05.20 docmojo: (I get tired of reading my own blather!)
20.05.27 ster: i gotcha
20.05.44 docmojo: Also, the next time you fire it up, it remembers who's what color.
20.05.46 ster: so tell us about the rivers
20.06.09 docmojo: Gawd, I posted some images lonf ago...
20.06.36 aktati: Lonf is a long time indeed !
20.06.41 docmojo: It's one of those problems--modelling them well--that seems easy but is rediculously hard, for certain theoretical reasons.
20.07.05 docmojo: Hey, I can't type and think at teh same time
20.07.07 docmojo: !
20.07.20 aktati: LOL me neither !
20.07.20 ster: how close will you be able to get and have the fractal detail
20.07.33 docmojo: They're already in there, have been from the start.
20.07.38 docmojo: But the new ones are far better.
20.07.46 docmojo: They're a PB option.
20.07.50 docmojo: (Very slow!)
20.07.55 ster: will it look like regular mojo
20.08.06 aktati: Good as mine look too blocky
20.08.10 docmojo: Uh, "sort of."
20.08.27 docmojo: The rivers have to be done as a bitmap, underneath.
20.08.31 ster: i've made rivers but was not happy w/ the detail even around 500-800m
20.08.39 docmojo: That will always show, in the end.
20.08.46 ster: they can't be mojo
20.09.00 docmojo: (Unless you're very clever--I have the greatest faith in this group!)
20.09.11 aktati: haha
20.09.25 docmojo: Detail has to be added. That's pure Mojo.
20.09.27 ster: you must be talking about hacker
calyxa: will Jim's source code be going out or just a dll?
20.09.38 docmojo: The new rivers are less blocky, I believe.
20.09.44 ster: i hope so
20.09.45 docmojo: Just the dll.
20.09.52 ster: how much is the sdk
20.10.16 docmojo: The algorithm is like one of your function graphs, KH!
20.10.24 docmojo: Free!
20.10.37 ster: any game developers signed up yet
calyxa: like Craig said, "if we charge for it then we'd have to support it!"
20.10.56 ster: that is what i was wondering
20.10.58 Bernard: So this algorithm is really simple. :-)
calyxa: LOL
20.11.30 aktati: ....it's all a mystery to me believe me : )
20.11.32 docmojo: Yep. NOT.
calyxa: ster, wanna see what my first plugin does?
20.12.11 ster: sho' nuff
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/gettingthere.jpg
calyxa: full of artifact, tho... too many vertical edges...
20.12.39 aktati: ...it's great stuff !
20.12.47 ster: cool
20.12.49 ster: steps
calyxa: needs work... but at least I'm starting to get a handle on it.
20.13.26 aktati: These are in Ireland......called' the Giants causeway'
20.13.48 ster: hey --- i've juried into a fine arts show in lakeland, florida
calyxa: yeah - those are hexagonal. I want to do hexagonal ones, but Craig says, "hexagons don't tile in three space"
20.13.59 docmojo: "Columnar joining," geologists call it.
20.14.15 Bernard: Giant's Causeway. I was there last summer
20.14.22 docmojo: Think Devel's Postpile, Caly.
20.14.28 aktati: Basalt ?
calyxa: I'd love to go. Giant's Causeway and Devil's Postpile are the same type of formation
20.14.50 docmojo: Yep, Ak.
20.15.20 docmojo: You see it all over the place, when you;re looking...
calyxa: hexagonal ones could be in 2-space, so inside a PB they'd work fine. applied to the planet, they'd be OK at the poles and smeared all to crap at the equator...
20.17.13 aktati: what effect does pb height edit button have ?
20.17.14 docmojo: Obviously, gravity plays a role, as they're almost always vertical.
20.18.00 docmojo: Clay?
20.18.06 docmojo: That is, "Caly?"
calyxa: which "height edit" button do you mean?
calyxa: you mean scaling along the blue axis?
20.18.35 docmojo: Does anyone here work with Dreamweaver? It's giving me fits...
20.18.37 aktati: Switched to advanced props as default true and found it
calyxa: hmm. hang on...
20.18.55 Bernard: Calixa sent me the plugin. I'm playing with it now. Really cool. But I would like to control the Pinhead size by a fractal. Go back to the source code, Cal!
calyxa: I'm too scared to do that Bernard!
20.19.14 docmojo: I've never seen it, Ak. But then, I've never set that to TRUE!
20.19.42 docmojo: Caly: "Ignore alien orders." ;-)
20.19.59 docmojo: (Just kidding, Bernard!)
calyxa: I thought about it, but you run into that "you can't comb a sphere" problem.
20.20.10 Bernard: Take me to your leader.
20.20.21 docmojo: HA HA HA!!!
20.20.46 docmojo: (I can just see you, half a meter high with a little ray gun...)
20.21.10 ster: doc -- what do you think about a 5ft tall x 100ft long mojo?
20.21.27 Bernard: I'm not this kind of alien. On my planet, gun are forbiden.
20.22.17 docmojo: Bring it on, Ster!!!
20.22.26 ster: maybe in a circular room
20.22.29 docmojo: KH: "Peace, brother!"
calyxa: well, I can't tell what Square Height is... and HelperObject is one of the classes that's currently missing from the SDK, otherwise the answer would be there...
20.22.37 aktati: Wow ster!
20.22.46 docmojo: Exactly: Like the Cyclorama they used to ahve there in Atlanta.
20.22.53 ster: not yet --- but i've found a printer
20.23.03 docmojo: Youd have to duck to get inside....
20.23.05 ster: hp 5000
20.23.20 ster: what if you went in strips vertically
20.23.25 docmojo: What would it cost to print?
20.23.27 ster: like at the winter games
20.23.37 docmojo: Didn't see that...
20.23.43 ster: i have no idea the cost -- i just hooked up w/ this guy
20.24.01 ster: the printer can print on 54 diff kinds of material
calyxa: sheet metal!
20.24.11 ster: even thin metal
calyxa: heh heh
20.24.17 docmojo: You/we should propose an installation for SIGGRAPH.
20.24.33 ster: the white areas would be metal
calyxa: that would rule
20.24.44 ster: really
20.24.50 ster: also canvas and linen
20.25.17 docmojo: Wow--sounds cool! Wish I'd seen it!
20.25.25 ster: ???
20.25.36 ster: still in the can
20.25.41 aktati: Mojo T-shirts next enterprise then !
20.26.19 docmojo: Seen cafepress.com, Ak?
20.26.26 docmojo: It's a great service!
20.26.33 docmojo: Check it out...
20.26.34 Bernard: I have made a print of the Quantum Fluctuation on a 70x100 cm sheet. About 4000x6000 pixels. Gives headaches if you look at it for too long.
20.26.34 aktati: no ?
20.26.52 ster: i bet that's killer hacker
20.26.57 docmojo: We did MojoWorld mugs & mouse pads at the outset of Pandromeda...
calyxa: and I use mine every day
20.27.11 docmojo: HA HA!
20.27.17 docmojo: Me, too!
20.27.21 aktati: LOL !
20.27.24 ster: me and my mojos will be in an art show next month
20.27.33 aktati: which one ?
20.27.35 Bernard: I wont one of those mugs
20.27.36 docmojo: I can see you staring at the print till you get a migrane, KH...
20.27.45 ster: mayfaire by the lake in florida
20.27.55 ster: polk museum of art sponsors
20.28.02 docmojo: Gawd, it was an early, really crude image...
calyxa: was mixing G&T in my mug last night ;)
20.28.27 ster: were you flying drunk
20.28.38 docmojo: Got mugged, eh? ;-)
20.28.40 Bernard: G&T?
20.28.47 ster: gin and tonic
calyxa: schwepped away
20.29.05 ster: schwepectasy
20.29.07 aktati: HA ! : D
calyxa: got that from the cashier who rang up my tonic purchase...
calyxa: I'd just come back from GDC and was dead on my feet
20.30.40 aktati: Which pic are you showing ster ?
calyxa: more than one, yes?
20.31.12 ster: yea like 20
20.31.18 ster: at different sizes
calyxa: the ones I voted for? ;)
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calyxa: w/b Irene
20.32.18 mojoreney: Poo! PB doesn't like VP DEM's.
20.32.38 aktati: No ?
calyxa: Mo just got booted.. he'll try to come back...
20.32.50 mojoreney: Tried exporting from VP as TXT and DXF. No go!
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calyxa: server hasn't cleared him out yet tho.
calyxa: ah, there you are
20.33.09 docmojo: I think Dreamweaver kicked me out!
20.33.13 mojoreney: Then I tried exporting as grayscale PCX.
calyxa: will it do PGM?
20.33.23 docmojo: I tell you, it's one strange program, DW.
20.33.53 ster: hey don't bash dw
20.33.59 mojoreney: Nope
calyxa: gotta code HTML by hand I say
20.34.14 ster: that's a staple for me
20.34.14 docmojo: I'm not really bashing it--YET>
20.34.23 docmojo: But it does some really odd things!
20.34.27 mojoreney: I'm in the process of converting the PCX to something PB can read.
20.34.40 ster: i'd be happy to help ya
20.35.05 docmojo: Cool! What's your phone #? I'd like to call when I'm flummoxed.
20.35.23 docmojo: I have lots of small questions... They come up at odd times...
20.35.26 ster: XXX-XXX-XXXX
20.35.39 docmojo: Thanks!!!
calyxa: woo hoo! (I'll replace that w/ X's when I post the log ;)
20.35.54 ster: alright?
20.36.03 ster: i mean cool
calyxa: you know how to whisper?
20.36.24 ster: in real life
20.36.30 aktati: LOL !
calyxa: it can be done w/ a command or w/ the buttons...
20.36.54 docmojo: It may simply be that I'm using this 2-way satellite dish, so there's a latency in the speed of light, getting the signal up 33,000 miles and back.
calyxa: if you type "/send docmojo a private msg" then Mo sees "a private msg" from you
calyxa: or, if you select someone in the list and then click on the W button, all the stuff you send will go privately to them...
20.37.24 docmojo: I think DW does a lot of handshaking, and the latency kills it.
20.37.26 mojoreney: What?! You mean we're not all supposed to call ster now? ;-)
20.37.47 ster: bring it on
20.37.50 docmojo: Good thing the Subgenii aren't here. (Most of them, anyway...)
20.37.58 docmojo: You'd never get any peace!
20.38.11 aktati: I will next time I'm stuck......hang the time difference LOL !
20.38.38 docmojo: Something tells me Ster is up for it, Ak...!
20.38.49 ster: hey i'm a dw guru
20.39.25 docmojo: Cool! We have a small pack of DW fools here. 3 of us, groping in the darkness...
20.39.38 ster: what ver.
20.39.47 docmojo: "It's not theoretical enough for me." ;-)
20.39.53 mojoreney: Not me. I'm totally webpage challenged.
20.39.55 ster: cool
20.40.08 docmojo: 4.0
20.40.13 ster: good
20.40.55 ster: do you use dw for ftp
20.41.00 docmojo: Q: I'm changing templates. Only text in them. If a "check in related files" does that include all teh ones updated by the changes?
20.41.07 docmojo: Yes, I do.
calyxa: I don't see that mug/mousepad pic in the gallery... I see similar planets (Snow Peaks 3, Crater) tho.
20.41.35 docmojo: The first four images in our Stills galery are from the same planet...
calyxa: Snowline 1...
20.41.44 ster: check in related files also uploads the images used in the page
20.41.47 docmojo: But not the iamge we used...
20.42.08 ster: so if you've only changed html you don't need to re-upload the images
20.42.12 docmojo: I knew that much... Do I have to cjeck in the affected pages separately?
20.42.23 docmojo: What's the best way to do that en masse?
20.42.31 ster: muli-select
20.42.41 ster: or better yet synchronize
20.42.56 docmojo: (I think I'd hammer the site with out-of-date files I have here, if I did a Synchronize...)
20.42.56 ster: and only put new files up to the server
20.43.09 ster: it gives you a preview
20.43.26 docmojo: Right. I missed that, the first tiem I tried it.
20.43.38 docmojo: I was wondering what teh heck it was doing!!!
20.43.42 ster: 1st and then you could uncheck the ones u don't wnat
20.43.45 ster: want
20.43.57 ster: did i answer your ?
20.44.02 docmojo: Right. Thanks!
20.44.07 ster: cool
20.44.07 docmojo: Yep!
20.44.22 docmojo: Let's talk MojoWorld--it's more fun!
20.44.36 ster: hey the new version of flash has video support
20.44.47 ster: codini would like it
20.44.52 docmojo: People keep asking if MW supports Flas.
20.44.55 docmojo: Flash
20.45.07 docmojo: Flash 3D looks like MW could pump stuff in...
20.45.19 ster: not sure about that
20.45.28 aktati: PB Q?....how do you lower the level of a pb cloud ?
20.45.30 docmojo: Saw it at GDC. Looks pretty cool!
20.45.30 ster: they are doing intel 3d in director
20.45.47 ster: well the ps2 supports flash
calyxa: you'd have to make a world cloud layer at the level you want and only apply clouds to it inside the PB
20.46.10 aktati: Aha !
calyxa: :)
20.46.31 mojoreney: Hi Al! Irene here!
20.46.43 aktati: Hi there tou !
20.46.46 docmojo: Hey, Ak, you should put up some things in cafepress.com and tell us where to get 'em!
20.47.25 aktati: Ok ...I'll have a look : )
20.47.53 docmojo: Legume posts weird stuff at cafepress all the time.
20.48.07 mojoreney: OK, I exported VP DEM of OLD Faithful as indexed PCX and converted to greyscale BMP for the PB import. I don't think this came out as it should, but it looks neato anyway!
20.48.10 docmojo: Sandy did it and said it was really easy.
20.48.34 docmojo: Huh? I'd think it would be right or garbage...
20.49.03 mojoreney: ? Ooodles of cascading steps.
20.49.18 docmojo: Quantization artifacts?
calyxa: sounds like
20.49.36 docmojo: If the hf went to 8 bits, that's probably the problem.
20.49.44 docmojo: You need 16 bits for ehight fields./
20.49.56 docmojo: height fields
20.49.58 mojoreney: Oh! OK! I'll try it again.
20.50.14 mojoreney: But 8bits turned out cool!
calyxa: rice paddies
20.51.13 ster: look below in the status bar
20.51.33 ster: ???
calyxa: below in what status bar?
calyxa: or is Mo whispering dw questions to you?
20.53.16 ster: i dont konw what the hell im doing
20.53.59 docmojo: Neither do I.
20.54.04 aktati: I'm going to play some mojo now, and post some pics.... has been really great to speak to you all ! : D .....Bye !
20.54.07 docmojo: I was stuck in Whisper mode to Ster!
20.54.18 docmojo: Bye!!!
20.54.27 Bernard: bye
20.54.27 aktati: : )
20.54.27 ster: ciao
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20.54.39 ster: mo mo
calyxa: ha ha ha
calyxa: look at all the fun I miss while I'm on my other screen...
20.55.00 docmojo: Huh>
20.55.03 docmojo: ?
20.55.10 ster: the transfer status on the left shows individual files going up
20.55.24 ster: even if the right is at 100%
20.55.41 docmojo: I see--but you have to mouseover it...
20.55.54 Bernard: I'm leaving to dive in the SDK. Bye All!
calyxa: have fun, B, talk to ya later!
20.56.04 ster: later bernard
20.56.12 docmojo: Guess I shouldn't have done that "put dependent files"...
20.56.16 mojoreney: Hmm, coverted to 16bit greyscale and saved as Tif. PB complained about the tif format, but loaded it. Terrain still looks the same as 8bit.
20.56.20 docmojo: Have fun, KH!
20.56.22 ster: right o
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20.56.27 docmojo: Can't wait to see what you come up with!
20.56.51 ster: really
calyxa: toroidal atmosphere!
20.57.03 docmojo: If it was ever 8 bits, it's hammered for good.
20.57.13 docmojo: Unless you run Bsmooth on it...
20.57.29 mojoreney: No, recovered the original color PCX.
20.57.30 ster: man i wish i could run bSmooth
20.57.40 mojoreney: Converted, I mean.
calyxa: hasn't he done that PC port yet?
20.58.26 ster: nope
20.58.44 docmojo: If it was color, it was 8 bits, methinks.
20.58.48 mojoreney: Man! Wasn't that supposed to happen over a year ago?
calyxa: at least!
20.59.16 docmojo: Ster: DW keeps putting MV in the background, and I have to use the Task Manager to bring it back forward!
20.59.29 mojoreney: I have some other CD's with DEM's. I think one has non-VP versions. I'll have to give those a try.
20.59.32 ster: hmmm
20.59.45 ster: what about alt tab
21.00.01 mojoreney: Gotta get ready to go to work now! Bye!
21.00.01 docmojo: It's pretty tough to tell, in my limited experience.
calyxa: see ya later, Irene!
21.00.17 ster: by irene
mojoreney has left channel Para_bombs
21.00.33 ster: try alt tabing vox to the foreground
21.00.35 docmojo: Many DEMs are 16 bit, but are made from contour maps, so they have the contours in them...!
calyxa: well, I'm gonna call this a log ;)