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PitfallsOfDisplacement : calyxa
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calyxa: yo, Cam
01.05.33 camel: Hey Caly!!
01.05.56 camel: So who's showing up this eve?
calyxa: it's early yet, still about an hour to official start time.
calyxa: not sure...
01.06.13 camel: Hehe!!!
calyxa: probably Bruce (pushinfaders), maybe Xenoarch, maybe ArtistKen... no Mo, tho
01.06.36 camel: No Mo?
01.06.42 camel: Why's that?
calyxa: because I haven't said, "hey Mo, there's really a 'vox tonight, be there!"
01.07.12 camel: LOL!!!!!
calyxa: I could try to ring him up now and see if he's game...
01.07.42 camel: Only if you want to.
01.08.09 camel: Is there anything special happening this eve?
calyxa: the plan is to talk about displacement the way we talked about textures in general last week
calyxa: (the transcript actually _is_ posted!)
01.09.06 camel: Ok I'll have to go copy it and read then.
01.09.24 camel: I wasn't around last week.
01.09.39 camel: To many things to do these days.
calyxa: ya...
01.10.18 camel: Did you have good holidays?
calyxa: not too bad.
calyxa: they usually get me down, so I'm glad it's over with for the year.
01.11.06 camel: Yup me to.
01.12.06 camel: Funny thing is though. My girlfriend has done some of next years Xmas shopping already, and its half done.
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calyxa: hola, Ash..(?)
01.12.32 camel: Hey FSC
01.12.40 FSC: Hi
01.13.01 FSC: wow, people are actually here.
01.13.12 camel: OOOoooooo!!!
calyxa: thursday night, 45 minutes before "an event"...
calyxa: it happens...
01.13.53 FSC: Is there an event, in 45?
01.14.34 camel: I think just a regular one. No speacial one.
calyxa: "regular thursday night" with almost a topic even (displacement)
01.15.42 FSC: Its 11:40 am here in Australia.
01.15.50 FSC: On Friday.
calyxa: it's 2:15pm friday afternoon in NZ...
calyxa: though I like to think of it as "three hours ago tomorrow"
01.16.29 FSC: hehe.
01.17.26 FSC: who usually joins in on these vox events? does the Doc?
calyxa: Mo hasn't been in on an event for a while. maybe I'll try to get his cage rattled for next week.
calyxa: he gave up on it when the turnout got too irregular, but with last week and tonight, he may be convinced to "make an appearance"
01.18.43 FSC: So I must remember, this time every week!
01.18.58 camel: hmmm i'll be around but not at the comp yall.
calyxa: until the time change happens (we "spring forward" in a couple months...)
01.19.23 FSC: hey?
calyxa: daylight saving time
calyxa: on or off, I always forget.
calyxa: spring forward, fall back... all that good stuff. do you not do that?
01.19.58 FSC: Yes, I never know which.
calyxa: some places don't. there are towns and counties in the US that don't do daylight time... very weird to have it be 4pm on one side of the road and only 3pm on the other.
01.21.40 FSC: Yeah, there are towns in Aus where they celebrate new years, then cross the road and celebrate it again!!
01.21.59 FSC: Town on the border.
01.22.37 camel: Dang gotta make dinner
01.22.49 camel: Be back in about 40 min.
01.22.52 camel: :)
calyxa: 'k
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01.22.59 FSC: Ok.
01.23.16 FSC: Ill have to help my mum dry the dogs soon.
calyxa: sounds fun... how many and what kind?
01.23.52 FSC: We have afghans so it takes my mum a while by herself.
calyxa: long hair on those dogs, huh.
01.24.16 FSC: We have 7, but shes only doing 2. yes very long hair.
calyxa: wow, that's a lot of dogs.
01.25.27 FSC: Like 4 of them are puppies, but still have long hair!
calyxa: gotta get up for a minute - BRB...
01.26.55 FSC: no worries, im gonna get some lunch.
calyxa: back, mostly ;)
01.30.44 FSC: Mmmm, meat pie!!
calyxa: I've got some eggplant parmesan in the microwave...
01.32.15 FSC: Oh yeah, my pie's allmost ready!!
01.46.21 FSC: My mum needs me to help with the dogs now.
calyxa: ok (munch munch)
01.46.40 FSC: Do know how long till this thing starts?
calyxa: the scheduled "official" start time is in 15 minutes
calyxa: but it'll start when people show up...
01.47.24 FSC: Ok, Ill be back here then.
calyxa: cool
01.47.34 FSC: Cya.
calyxa: bye
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calyxa: hey hey, two at once!
02.05.25 XenoArch: hey
calyxa: (assuming things work for infidel...)
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calyxa: w/b FSC
02.06.28 FSC: Thanks. Mum let me do this.
calyxa: got out of dog-drying duty?
02.06.46 FSC: Yep.
calyxa: so, you all want to know the deep secret to making displacements work without too many artifacts and without hanging renders?
02.08.37 infidel: can anyone hear me? this still isn't working properly..
02.08.51 FSC: I can here you.
02.08.53 XenoArch: don't do displacements?
calyxa: I see you, infidel.
02.09.12 FSC: Do do displacements.
calyxa: heh, that's one answer, XA
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02.09.36 XenoArch: displacements is givening me no end of troub with my shoredistance plugin
calyxa: hey, Bruce
02.09.50 FSC: Bruce, what up.
02.09.55 pushinfaders: HI gang !!
calyxa: one secret of displacement is - the smoother the underlying terrain function, the fewer artifacts you'll get...
02.11.13 pushinfaders: Ahhh, that makes sense
02.11.36 infidel: ok i guess i have to live with this strange, insane lag
calyxa: similarly, the smoother the displacement is, the better it works...
calyxa: bummer, infidel...
02.12.10 infidel: displacements haven't caused many problems for me lately
02.12.33 XenoArch: yeah i know i have to figureout how to smooth presampled points
02.12.35 pushinfaders: roughness is an under used parameter
calyxa: this smoothness bit is also why specifying a smallest feature size other than 0 makes displacements work better.
02.13.13 FSC: Oh yeah.
02.13.57 infidel: i usually use noise rather than fractals
02.14.06 pushinfaders: I should be taking notes...I'll just save this whole thing
02.14.08 infidel: 2 noises, one large and one small, is often much better looking
calyxa: I'm not 100% sure, but for some reason I'm thinking a noise is the same as a fractal with a roughness of 0 (and probably faster...)
02.14.48 FSC: I usually only use noise for distorting, in a big scale.
02.15.22 FSC: Um, how do you save this?
02.15.31 pushinfaders: I'll have to give the noise idea a try
calyxa: clicky on either 'save to disk' icon
calyxa: the one with the arrow that goes 'round will continuously log
calyxa: the first one just saves "what we've got so far"
02.16.02 FSC: Ok, at the end or right now.
calyxa: depends on which one you use...
02.17.08 FSC: I see now, please continue.
calyxa: the next thing I was going to mention was about scale...
02.17.37 pushinfaders: I forget about that..now in a future version of the vox, file sharing would be very cool
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calyxa: the general rule of "don't put the camera closer than twice the distance of the largest displacement" usually works...
02.18.58 pushinfaders: so if your using a 2 meter displacement stay at least 4 meters away?
calyxa: yeah - unless you're sure of which way the displacement goes.
02.19.42 FSC: Which is the best way with result scale, minus or plus.
02.20.03 pushinfaders: I noticed a lot of Bob and Armands voronoi displacements are negative #'s
calyxa: depends on what you want - and what you're displacing.
calyxa: hang on while I find my sample image...
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02.20.42 pushinfaders: Hello Ken !!
02.20.45 FSC: Ive used negative values mostly.
calyxa: hey, Ken
calyxa: (lookin for a sample image to upload...)
02.20.58 FSC: Hi Ken.
02.21.01 artistken: Howdy All!
02.21.40 XenoArch: gotta run... been swamped lately
02.21.49 artistken: seey Xwno
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02.21.54 pushinfaders: See ya Xeno
02.21.56 FSC: Yep, cya.
02.22.12 pushinfaders: Eric's back
02.22.56 pushinfaders: So a negative displacement cuts into it where a positive extrudes right?
02.22.58 artistken: Calyxa, very nice work on the tutorial so far and I like the direction you are taking!
calyxa: depends - a negative displacement on the planet behaves differently than on a sphere...
calyxa: if I can ever find that sample image.....
calyxa: grr.
02.23.43 pushinfaders: Calys having a rough week
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/displacementexample.jpg
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calyxa: same material on the planet (flat planet) and on the sphere...
calyxa: Ken, I know I explained this one to you a while back... ;)
02.26.11 artistken: yup - the examples are great
02.26.49 FSC: But you can allways flip the curve.
calyxa: I made a planet called 'Zen' that's _all_ displacement. and through careful usage of the input curve, I keep the displacement all hugely positive, so the camera is guaranteed to always be above the planet's surface.
02.27.08 FSC: And min input as -1.
calyxa: flipping the curve will flip the orientation -- but!
calyxa: if you are 10 meters above a surface being poked out 20 meters, your render will hang...
calyxa: if you are 10 meters above a surface that is being poked in 20 meters, you're cool.
02.28.04 pushinfaders: It's funny cause , on the planet it appears to do the opposite of what you think it would
02.28.06 FSC: Yep.
calyxa: yes, displacement on the planet is "backwards" but we decided it was better to call that a "known issue" than to "fix" it because fixing it would break a bunch of worlds that already existed.
02.29.10 FSC: This is very interesting!
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calyxa: w/b Cam
02.29.25 pushinfaders: I was looking at the linear displacements on the planets MCS (?) The tweak of sinew world...
02.29.28 camel: Hey all!!!
02.29.35 pushinfaders: Hi cam
02.29.37 FSC: Hello.
02.30.09 camel: Sorry go on, didn't mean to interupt.
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/zend.mjw <-- that's my 'zen' world where the mountain height function is "height = 0" and all the terrain comes from material displacement...
calyxa: you can put your camera as low as you want and it should still render because the displacement should be pushing the planet's surface down everywhere.
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calyxa: w/b Eric
02.31.46 FSC: Im trying it now Caly.
02.32.05 pushinfaders: Got it..Thank you
calyxa: it would have been cooler if 'altitude' wasn't really 'undisplaced altitude'...
calyxa: then I could have made it look like a flat grey planet until it was rendered. ah well.
02.32.54 FSC: Looks allmost underwater.
02.33.11 infidel: what'd i miss? :)
calyxa: that's just where the camera is - there's some land-looking stuff, too. I had another version w/ an ocean which did weird things to it...
02.33.22 FSC: I see how you can go 1 metre and no artifacts.
02.33.32 artistken: Gotta run to the convenient store real quick, gonna keep my vox open so I get all the juicy stuff, will be back in a quick few!
calyxa: that's because of two things - the fact that the underlying terrain is perfectly smooth and the fact that the displacements are all positive, pushing the planet in.
02.34.16 pushinfaders: like an inverse Mojo world
calyxa: but if you always push the planet in, you don't get overhangs, which is the coolest part of displacement...
calyxa: so we're really back to "smooth" and "watch your camera height"...
calyxa: hang on while I dig up another sample...
02.35.39 FSC: Really weird world caly.
calyxa: heh, thanks.
02.36.05 pushinfaders: argh..rendering..can't look now
calyxa: it was mostly a "proof of concept" thing.
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calyxa: man, I wish I knew why Eric has such problems w/ vox!
02.36.36 FSC: Yeah.
02.36.55 pushinfaders: I really wonder if is an issue with his ISP
02.37.04 FSC: I like how you dunno what your rendereing!
02.37.07 camel: Could be.
calyxa: gah... classic bombed on me... so I've got to wait another 5 minutes before I can convert that next example pic to a jpg.
calyxa: yeah, ISP or firewall or something...
calyxa: that's why I called it "Zen".
02.37.39 FSC: Zen?
02.37.49 camel: I remember when i was in the revolving door in Brycetalk.
calyxa: the filename was 'zend' because it was a fourth variant of 'zen'...
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calyxa: John! LTNS!
02.38.15 camel: John!!!!
02.38.15 pushinfaders: Hi John
02.38.20 John_Spirko: Good Evening! :-)
02.38.23 FSC: Hi John.
calyxa: you've missed all my secrets ;)
02.38.49 John_Spirko: you must have a few left? :-)
calyxa: yeah, I'm working on finding, converting and uploading the next example image...
02.39.26 FSC: Im sure she does.
02.39.28 pushinfaders: I'm still experimenting with distorted noise displacements..nothing great to report, but I think I'm on the right track by using small amounst and sizes of the distortion
02.40.04 pushinfaders: Just enough to make it look different
02.41.08 pushinfaders: Shive had some nice sine displacements on the snow stuff
calyxa: this - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/treetest1.jpg - is a parameter bomb...
calyxa: (sorry it's so dark... )
02.41.36 artistken: I am away.
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calyxa: quick, grab him!
02.42.01 camel: Wow neat looking Caly!!
calyxa: needs work... but again, it's a 'proof of concept' thing.
02.42.27 camel: Hey infidel watch that revolving door!!!!
02.42.51 FSC: Wow, cool Caly.
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calyxa: it'll be easier to do stuff like that if I ever get around to finishing my material plugin where one can blend the color of the materials separately from the displacement...
02.44.33 infidel: i keep getting disconnected :(
calyxa: and I assume it's still slow and lag-y for you still, huh...
calyxa: wish I knew why..
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calyxa: w/b Bruce
02.45.53 pushinfaders: Argh
02.45.55 camel: infidel you running Dialup?
calyxa: brb...
02.47.43 infidel: T1 at res!
02.48.03 camel: Hmmm.........
02.48.08 pushinfaders: I'm on dial up..no probs and I'm on the lod version of vox
02.48.38 FSC: Im on dial up
02.49.02 pushinfaders: What time is it there Ash?
02.49.07 infidel: calyxa do you know what the ip of the server is?
calyxa: no... I can guess what it might be... but I'm not sure if there's just one machine or two.
02.49.53 FSC: Its 1:15pm!!
calyxa: it might be 210.86.108.26
02.50.13 FSC: What about you bruce?
calyxa: Bruce is in Mo's timezone, going on 10pm thursday night (right?)
02.50.43 pushinfaders: 9:43 Pm
02.51.06 artistken: I'm back, nice to see everyone!
02.51.27 camel: Heh..
calyxa: saw another one of your students at 3dc....
02.51.33 artistken: yup we 9:45 here in Fla
02.51.43 artistken: oh?
02.51.59 infidel: thanks, gotta go, sorry
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02.52.55 pushinfaders: I posted a link to your site in the forum Ken...Just cause it's cool
calyxa: Jeremy "Dekard" Lindstrom
02.53.29 artistken: he, he, its so old now I really should redo that old thing
02.53.47 artistken: so much new stuff to add
02.54.18 artistken: Ahh yes, Jeremy
calyxa: the old, "it's not a web site, it's a
calyxa: cobweb site!"
02.54.42 pushinfaders: On displacements.. the work the same on the water as on land right?
calyxa: nope, positive displacements on the ocean poke out, like you'd expect. backwards from the planet.
02.55.03 artistken: budda bum!
02.56.08 John_Spirko: I am away.
02.56.19 artistken: Got the word form the boss this week we will be upgrading to ver 2 in the classroom in a week or two.
calyxa: excellent
02.56.28 artistken: wahoo
02.56.37 camel: Sweet:)
02.56.39 FSC: In the classroom????
02.56.45 pushinfaders: Cool !! Woooo HHHooo!!!!
02.57.03 artistken: coorporate was draggin feet on the budget
calyxa: I'm sure Mo cut you a good deal tho ;)
02.57.18 artistken: but we got 42 on the way!
02.57.35 camel: Yah baby!!! Way to go:)
02.57.53 FSC: So your teaching a mojoworld class? Cooool.
02.57.54 artistken: that was all btween him and Ray my boss I try to stay out of the money side of things
calyxa: Ken's our biggest customer. by a long shot ;)
02.58.33 artistken: its a part of a required course in our BFA program
02.58.42 pushinfaders: Now Ken, I'll be looking for you to put all those machines to use and animate hackers volumetric clouds !!
02.59.00 camel: Hah!!!!
02.59.02 FSC: Very cool. Yeah, some animations!! hehehe.
02.59.02 artistken: You reading my mind again PF!
calyxa: how about that 'Mover' plugin, huh!!
02.59.27 artistken: actually , where is that thing?
02.59.32 pushinfaders: That's pretty darned cool
calyxa: I knew you were going to demand an url... gonna have to type it from the other screen... no cut-n-paste that works between 'vox on the pc and the browser on teh mac...
03.00.18 artistken: im afraid it got past me til I read about it yesterday somewghere, as usual my memory of where fails me! :)
calyxa: http://www.silicon-peace.com/sp_pages/MojoWorld/MW2.0/KH_Mover/index.html
calyxa: now to see if I typed that right...
calyxa: yay!
03.01.20 camel: It's right.
calyxa: I haven't really played with it yet. but I think there will be a way to have this "fake" up some orthographic view cameras (top, side...)
03.02.55 artistken: thanks for that link C
03.03.08 pushinfaders: personally, I want Craigs underwater cam...
calyxa: I want his grass.
03.03.43 pushinfaders: yeah, the grass under water !!!
calyxa: yeah! render time? what's that?!
03.04.19 artistken: its all int the name of science!
03.04.38 artistken: adn ART!
03.04.53 artistken: my usual bad typos!
03.04.55 pushinfaders: well, I was reading the other day, that Intel plans to reach the 6 ghz mark by 2005
calyxa: I'll be happy if I can get that tree to grow outside of a parameter bomb...
calyxa: Intel loves us.
03.05.16 FSC: 6ghz, wow.
calyxa: Not Fast Enough!
03.05.24 camel: LOL!!!
03.05.29 FSC: Haha.
03.05.32 pushinfaders: It was in E week
calyxa: we need that _per pixel_, man
03.05.46 FSC: Who?
03.05.50 artistken: nothing will ever be fast enough!
03.05.56 pushinfaders: e-businss weekly
03.06.02 FSC: Oh, I get it!
calyxa: brb...
03.06.16 FSC: yep.
03.06.21 camel: Unless it's the computer called DEEPTHINK!!!
03.06.59 John_Spirko: apparently Cray is building a new super computer - it will have just over 10,000 of the newest AMD chips
03.07.02 pushinfaders: ken, let me find the link to Craigs underwater camera shots, unless you saw them
03.07.19 artistken: got a whole new group of fledgling mojonauts for the winter session
03.07.29 artistken: havent seen them
03.07.32 FSC: Thats great Ken.
03.07.46 artistken: I knew they were coming though!
03.07.57 camel: Now all you have to do is teach on the net to Ken!!!
03.08.01 artistken: Mo told me about his little project
calyxa: I've got the location of some animations Craig did w/ the underwater cam...
03.08.54 artistken: it would demand the underwater stuff
03.09.02 pushinfaders: http://www.3dcommune.com/3d/galview.mv?MojoWorld+nARiXclaM+1042708403
calyxa: this should sort by last modified and it'll be the last three items listed - 'dark.mov' 'light.mov' and 'underwater3.mov' - https://www.internal.pandromeda.com/engineering/craig/unsecure/?M=A
03.10.15 artistken: yup, looking good
calyxa: the 'underwater3.mov' one is a QTVR
03.10.53 artistken: I wonder if he can get the murk to be more particulate looking
03.11.03 artistken: I mean in the very near ground
03.11.21 artistken: in the "real" underwater
03.11.57 artistken: the clarity increases as you get closer but the murk value goes up because the particles are also closer to you
03.12.48 artistken: if you put your hand only a few inchesw from your face
03.13.24 artistken: it looks very clear which actualy makes it easier to see the little things floating in it
03.14.07 artistken: when moving through it , ala an animation
03.14.50 artistken: it would look like a billion mtiny particles hurling toward you like a tiny marine starfiled
calyxa: since I have no idea how it works, I dunno if it'll be drivable with a function...
03.18.02 artistken: thats what I was wonder ing as soon as I saw the images. spose its some sort of modified atmoshpere code?
03.18.26 artistken: if so it could be driven with testures
03.18.27 pushinfaders: I believe so
03.18.34 artistken: textures
03.21.10 pushinfaders: I'd like to see what it would look like if you had the camera half above and half below...That would be cool
03.21.19 artistken: whats tough to get around is the lack of vlumetrics in the underwater stuff
03.21.47 artistken: here at school we always fake it with post effects
calyxa: I'd like to see an animation of the camera flying between above and below water - sploosh!
03.22.11 artistken: therr are some really cool after effects plugs that do it very nicely!
03.22.13 pushinfaders: dolphin cam!!
03.22.29 artistken: NOW WE ARE JAMMIN!
03.23.04 pushinfaders: or getting burried while on a surf board !!
03.23.05 artistken: and PLEASE can I attach that camera to a spline path?
calyxa: as soon as Bernard writes a spline object for his Mover, yes.
calyxa: and I know he's got a spline object about 80% written already.
03.24.16 pushinfaders: Ok, I'm ignorant, what's a spline?
03.24.19 artistken: Go Bernard! It wil have to do for now!
03.24.38 artistken: a curvy elastic line
03.24.44 John_Spirko: technically - it's a line - like a vector line
03.24.57 pushinfaders: that the camera follows?
03.25.00 John_Spirko: used in 3d modelling programs
03.25.07 artistken: yup
03.25.25 pushinfaders: Ok, then I don't feel as stupid
03.25.34 pushinfaders: :-)
03.25.41 artistken: its how we do complex camera pathts without flying around in realtime
03.26.03 pushinfaders: a plotted camera path
03.26.08 artistken: correct
03.27.13 pushinfaders: Got it now
03.27.36 artistken: Hmm, just gave myself an idea!
calyxa: http://www.3dcommune.com/3d/galview.mv?MojoWorld+gGTbrddoQ+1019576572
calyxa: that's an old image by KrummenHacker showing his spline object...
03.29.31 artistken: been trying to figure ou t how to get a good 360 degree hemishperical rendering of a MJW scene that I can project onto the inside of a sphere
03.30.19 pushinfaders: Like a qtvr, but round
03.30.35 artistken: yup
03.31.16 pushinfaders: kinda like a Mojo planitarium
03.31.22 John_Spirko: I'd imagine that the easiest way would be to have someone figure out a mapping conversion from the QTVR
03.31.24 artistken: So it can be used as very distant scenery in a larger 3d set
calyxa: yeah, what John said.
calyxa: make the QTVR faces, stick'em on a cube and then 'spherize' that cube w/ a 3d modeling app... I'm pretty sure I heard that discussed before, but I don't know enough about other 3d apps to know exactly what the deal is.
03.32.22 artistken: thats what I was thinkin too, you guys know I cant program my way out of a bad cellphone menu!
calyxa: there was a guy who almost froze to death 'cuz he couldn't get his microsoft-based phone to boot!
03.33.15 pushinfaders: Ken's VCR probably flashes 12:00 ha ha ha ha
calyxa: heh!
03.33.29 artistken: you righ tthough a good work around technique is what I nedd to get down pat
03.33.30 pushinfaders: Just kidding !!
calyxa: I'll bet he stuck a piece of tape on it.
03.34.09 artistken: it gets its time from the cable connetion ,//// so there !
03.34.30 John_Spirko: http://www.setpixel.com/content/?ID=20
03.34.39 artistken: its the microwave clock that s always on the wrong time!
calyxa: so, just got a reply from Craig, in response to "yeah! grass! under water!" -- he says, "Sick masochists. You people just seem to want pain. :)"
03.35.27 FSC: Haha.
03.35.46 John_Spirko: http://www.cortstratton.org/content/tutorials/cubemaps.php
calyxa: heh, cool links, John ;)
03.36.43 John_Spirko: already getting way over my head :-)
03.37.19 John_Spirko: ah may have one...sec
03.37.26 artistken: yes more pain! I want my cpus in the next 10 years to beg for mercy!
03.37.50 John_Spirko: this one may help http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/projection/spheretexture/
03.38.13 John_Spirko: it has C source code for it
calyxa: brb..
03.38.26 John_Spirko: brb
03.38.42 artistken: John, yoou freak me out!
03.40.06 artistken: Where do you find all this stuff and even more impressive to me is how yo uremember where you find it!
calyxa: he's probably googling it up as we talk.
03.40.40 camel: Holy cripes!!!
03.40.47 pushinfaders: wow that's wils stuff
03.40.56 camel: Yah it is!!
03.41.06 artistken: I read and surf so much stuff I cant ever remember except for the rare ocasion I actually bookmark it!
03.41.29 artistken: thought I recognized the name
03.42.07 pushinfaders: I bookmark all kinds of stuff, but I changed browsers and for got to save them..opppss
calyxa: google rocks.
03.42.31 artistken: oh yes I almost forgot,
03.43.04 artistken: cool local news and MJW also
03.43.20 John_Spirko: yepper - Google it is!
03.44.08 John_Spirko: mind you, I do have a good collection of strange links
03.45.03 John_Spirko: any of you remember the '8 ball' fortune telling device from way back?
03.45.14 artistken: the Tampa International Film Festival becoming one of the hot new emerging festivals among the "indie"crowd, 3rd annual event this March will feature several short animations done by student from my previous classes!
03.45.16 pushinfaders: Oh yeah
calyxa: got one sitting on top of my monitor and consult it regularly!
calyxa: cool, Ken!
03.45.44 John_Spirko: there's a guy took one and made up a robotic arm and put a camera so you can use it on line
calyxa: I heard about that, but it was always down when I visted.
03.46.08 pushinfaders: I read tarot cards
03.46.19 artistken: Our fearless leader chose his choices for the best of the work so far and put together a nifty little 6 minute montage of the various bits
03.46.28 John_Spirko: actually it's down now - burnt out the controller
03.46.40 camel: hehe
03.46.44 John_Spirko: http://8ball.federated.com/ interesting read
03.47.19 John_Spirko: uses a lego robotic arm
03.48.56 artistken: has anyone tried to put displacements on rings?
03.49.08 artistken: im trying now
calyxa: yes, there are some preset rings that have some very large displacements on them.
03.49.24 artistken: which ones
calyxa: Ice block and orbital station
03.49.45 artistken: i need a good starting place to see what can be done there
calyxa: maybe electroplate too, but I'm not sure...
calyxa: be warned - large displacements on rings will look crappy from the equator.
03.50.24 artistken: okie going to lok at them now
03.50.26 John_Spirko: Caly - I have some meshes for Mojo - some 'alien' towers, pyramids, etc. - should I send these to you?
calyxa: it'll be a while before we do another "collect content for a CD" run...
03.51.10 artistken: I want to see the from space almost flush with the rings themselves
calyxa: if you'd like, you can send them to me and I can post them to the 'free stuff' on 3dc, giving you credit, of course.
03.51.40 John_Spirko: okay - they are intended as freebies
calyxa: the render will probably hang, Ken... the old "too close to large displacements"
03.51.48 John_Spirko: just testing some of them out now
03.51.54 FSC: I allways wanted some pyramids.
03.52.18 FSC: Ones that look ancient!
03.52.36 artistken: i'll lower them down , im looking for a sort of icy asteroid field look
03.53.02 FSC: I hope you can det these Ken,
03.53.22 FSC: I tried and had lotsa troubles.
03.54.22 pushinfaders: I tried that Ken, tried using a texture similar to a star field...
03.54.31 artistken: and?
03.54.37 pushinfaders: crap
03.54.44 pushinfaders: :-)
03.54.45 artistken: not encouraging
03.54.49 artistken: he he
03.55.00 FSC: If you can get the transparency right, you should be right.
03.55.07 artistken: I may have to di it in Maya and add it as a post effect
03.55.16 John_Spirko: I have a pyramid with rounded edges that might look okay
03.55.21 pushinfaders: I was thinking some of the glassy mats might work
03.55.47 artistken: thats what i was just now trying was a glas mat with a subtle displacement
03.56.05 artistken: trouble is I cant get close enopugh to it
03.56.25 pushinfaders: back to displacements....what basis?
03.57.28 artistken: varoni
calyxa: 'subtle' isn't going to do it on rings - they're so far away, you'd need at least a few K of displacement to have it visible from the planet's surface. getting too close to the rings is probably asking for trouble, displacement or no.
03.57.47 artistken: yup
03.58.09 artistken: they want to dissapear
03.58.18 pushinfaders: yep
03.58.38 pushinfaders: metal looking mats?
04.00.11 pushinfaders: then they might be reflective yet not as transparent
04.00.28 FSC: Well, I allmost got some icy rocky rings.
04.01.35 FSC: Getting closer!
calyxa: the preset ones aren't too bad, when viewed from the right angles...
04.02.26 John_Spirko: http://www.iaw.on.ca/~jspirko/temp/tower_test03.jpg
04.03.37 camel: OOoooo cool john!!
04.04.11 artistken: where are those presets Caly? In the sattelites?
04.04.25 pushinfaders: yes ken
04.04.41 pushinfaders: Wow John, those are cool
calyxa: choose 'load ring from library' in the moon editor
04.05.13 FSC: Even closer!
04.05.34 artistken: okie dokie
04.06.00 John_Spirko: dang just crashed mojo!
04.06.58 camel: Guess i need to read the book again!!!:(
04.07.23 artistken: I need to read the v2 addendum again!
04.07.24 camel: Dang to much stuff in MW
04.08.27 pushinfaders: That's what makes it soo cool Cam... you could spend months working on just one aspect
calyxa: and I need to write a bunch of new stuff to explain it all from yet another angle...
04.08.54 artistken: Thats true Caly!
04.09.05 camel: :)
04.09.10 artistken: One thign I have definately discovered with the students
04.09.30 artistken: not only do they need repetition
04.09.38 artistken: of basic concepts
04.10.11 John_Spirko: the rounded pyramid should work for an old relic
04.10.44 artistken: but they also need new ways of seeing the cause and effect relationship between the parameters and the result!
04.11.26 artistken: Hey john, ar e those meshes .3ds files?
04.12.09 pushinfaders: I can relate to that Ken.. I often find myself looking back into the old manual to refresh stuff and find new concepts that I didn't get before
04.12.34 pushinfaders: or at least now I have a better understanding
04.12.44 John_Spirko: I have them in obj and 3ds
04.13.01 John_Spirko: sec - doing a fast bryce render of a bunch of them
04.13.34 pushinfaders: 3ds imports really well I find
04.13.36 artistken: was jst curious what modeler you were using to creat them
04.14.23 John_Spirko: using Carrara 2
04.14.39 FSC: hehe, just crashed mojo, its all good.
04.14.46 John_Spirko: :-)
04.15.30 artistken: he he FSC, dirty particulate rings are a Pain eh?
04.15.33 John_Spirko: http://www.iaw.on.ca/~jspirko/temp/TOWERS.JPG
04.15.50 John_Spirko: I put a stone texture on the one pyramid
04.15.52 FSC: They sure are!!!
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04.16.05 John_Spirko: these are all fairly low poly meshes
calyxa: hi, frogdot
04.16.07 FSC: Hi!
04.16.11 frogdot: hi
04.16.12 John_Spirko: hello
calyxa: welcome, welcome
04.16.24 camel: Hey Frog!!
04.16.28 pushinfaders: Welcome!!
04.16.29 frogdot: first time I've ever seen people in vox
04.16.31 artistken: hello fd
04.16.37 John_Spirko: brb need a refill
04.16.51 artistken: we are few but we ar mighty!
04.16.54 pushinfaders: John, I especially like the twisty one in the foreground
04.17.35 pushinfaders: FD,Dave(?) Thursday is the usual night
calyxa: "official" start time was 1.25 hours ago
04.18.03 frogdot: I usually miss the right time
04.18.25 pushinfaders: 2.25 Caly
calyxa: right. time flies like an arrow.
04.18.52 artistken: My students often use Xfrog to spit out wierd organic looking geometries for import nto MJW
calyxa: the "official" time was supposed to _end_ 1.25 hours ago.
calyxa: :)
04.19.30 pushinfaders: :-)
04.19.50 artistken: I hope to have the websit e up by spring so all can see this stuff these guys do
04.20.00 FSC: Who says it has to end!!
04.20.04 pushinfaders: I'd love to see it ken
04.20.20 artistken: I encourage them to use commune but theya re so lazy about that sort of thing
04.20.26 camel: I wanna see now though:)
04.20.31 camel: Nurknurk!!!
04.20.56 pushinfaders: what's on your site, it cool no matter how old it is.. mandelbrot maurauders ha ha
04.20.58 FSC: Yeah, they should share there work!
04.21.55 John_Spirko: I'll have these and some others that I'll pass on to Caly
04.21.55 artistken: they dont do much useful planet building but they do produce some good images and some nifty short animations
04.22.20 pushinfaders: What I really like about what ken's students do, is they tell a story
04.23.03 artistken: yup, gonna put all the stories onthe site too!
04.23.40 artistken: I'm having the students from the webdesign program design the falsh interface and set up the sith this semester
04.23.57 artistken: sorry the typing guys
04.24.19 pushinfaders: well, you could throw my generator contest on them... the idea is you take a world, leave the land textures alone and make your own materials...
04.24.28 camel: Hey all, Sorry but i gotta scoot!!!
calyxa: the typing guys are on strike, eh?
calyxa: thanks for coming by, Cam
04.24.37 camel: Yyou all take care.
04.24.41 camel: Night.
04.24.43 pushinfaders: C ya Cam.. good to C ya again
04.24.48 camel: :)
04.24.50 artistken: later Cam
04.24.52 John_Spirko: good night\
04.24.55 FSC: Seeya!
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