mojovox.pandromeda.com has set channel members only flag to Water
mojovox.pandromeda.com has set topic settable by chop only flag to Water
Water : calyxa
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Water : calyxa
bryn has joined Water
calyxa: hola!
01.11.21 bryn: hey you're super major early
calyxa: I usually try to be, so I can be sure to be the first one here.
01.11.58 bryn: Is this some unresolved competitive issues left over from childhood or ?
calyxa: there was one time when I was only 20 minutes early and there was already a room here w/ people in it and I didn't get to make the room name or be moderator and all that good stuff.
calyxa: basically it's a control issue.
01.13.37 bryn: didn't realize that you could only be moderator if you were first. I do remember co-opting the room name once, but I figured nobody ever looks at the room name because there's always only 1
calyxa: usually only one... but there have been times w/ multiple rooms.
01.14.09 bryn: anyway, I was just logging myself in early, I've got to go get some more stuff done, I'll check back in a while
calyxa: ok, cool.
01.30.58 bryn: I am away.
01.45.26 bryn: I am back.
01.45.30 bryn: no action yet huh?
calyxa: nope...
01.45.52 bryn: but clearly you're staring at mojovox with that fast of a response
calyxa: dinner's in the microwave...
calyxa: no, it beeps at me.
calyxa: I was playing solitaire on the other screen.
01.46.33 bryn: spider solitaire or regular?
calyxa: heh. something I wrote myself w/ javascript back in '97. I still play the silly thing.
01.47.37 bryn: those old classic games are the most entertaining
01.47.48 bryn: or maybe captivating is the word
calyxa: beeeep. while I go get my dinner, you can check it out - http://calyxa.best.vwh.net/jgame/
calyxa: mmmphyummm.
01.51.28 bryn: tasty huh?
calyxa: yesterday's beef stew and cornbread.
01.51.43 bryn: the instructions to that game make my head hurt like mojoworld
calyxa: yeah, sorry. I should re-write'em.
calyxa: and better graphics on the tiles would help explain it, too.
01.52.24 bryn: I figured it out by playing the game and looking for links
01.52.34 bryn: or a smarter player would help too
calyxa: graphics that show the tiles as if they're hanging down from the ones above in a chain would make the most logical sense.
01.53.38 bryn: but overlapping graphics is more challenging. just let em figure it out I say
calyxa: so, you wanna see the amazing set of water samples and text I prepared for tonight?
01.54.44 bryn: ok
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/watervox/
01.55.14 bryn: doh! I'm viewing the left half of it (in your js solitair window)
calyxa: heh, I hate it when that happens...
calyxa: and it happens to me a lot 'cuz I always play that game.
01.55.49 bryn: wow, your examples of the effects of different parameters are so helpful!
01.55.58 bryn: they should really double your salary
calyxa: Mo doubles my salary regularly.
01.56.18 bryn: I think in the end you could put it together as an ebook and sell it
calyxa: he did send me a bottle of gin the other day for when I was lurking on a conference call w/ him and Craig and the one sentance I uttered averted a many-hour argument between'em.
01.57.16 bryn: wow, you can bring arguing men to their knees with one sentence, that along with your god-like mojovox powers makes me think there is a deity among us
calyxa: demi-goddess. ;)
01.58.26 bryn: the one benefit (when you are tired) and drawback of your game is that you can just use the cursor to find the moves
calyxa: Mo wanted Craig to send him the entire source tree for the secret underwater build that I'm not supposed to have, but because I have it, I knew about the bug in the UI that shows up if you're not in advanced mode..
calyxa: but 'just any' move isn't always the best one.
01.59.16 bryn: 'just any' move isn't the best --> like life? oh man, wish somebody had told me that a long time ago
01.59.38 bryn: so how did that avert an argument?
calyxa: I was able to say, "oh you need to be in advanced mode for the parameters to match" and Mo said, "oh, OK, now I get it" and Craig said, "oh really? file a bug report please!"
calyxa: if I hadn't been there, Mo would have said, "send me the source" and Craig would have said, "there's no reason, it's not broken"
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02.00.50 methametric: ahoy
calyxa: hello!
02.00.59 methametric: = Gavin
calyxa: ah, cool, hiya, G!
02.01.21 methametric: finally got of my behind and registered :-)
02.01.27 methametric: off*
calyxa: (Gavin from 3d commune or Gavin from Adobe?)
02.01.43 methametric: 3dcommune
calyxa: that was my bet.. ;)
02.02.13 methametric: just finished Cryptonomicon
calyxa: haven't read it yet... was it good?
02.02.37 methametric: excellent
02.02.50 methametric: bizzare at times
calyxa: all of the Stephenson I've read so far would fit that description.
02.03.29 methametric: there's an entire chapter devoted to describing the proper way to eat Captain Crunch :-)
calyxa: never was too big on cereal... but anyway... check this out while I go put my plate away and get something to drink... http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/watervox/
calyxa: bonus! the whiny cat went out! ;)
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calyxa: scared him away?!
02.08.35 bryn: hey are you calling me a whiny cat?
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calyxa: w/b Gavin
02.08.53 methametric: flaky flaky!
calyxa: no, my kitty Cici is the whiny cat...
calyxa: crash opening a browser?
02.09.07 bryn: I thought cryptonomicon was really good though less bizarre than his other books, because it's set half in modern day
02.09.30 methametric: Enoch Root waas a truly interesting character
02.10.20 methametric: caly, is there a "cap level" for transparency?
02.10.32 bryn: is there a cap level to anything?
02.10.44 bryn: other than the ones that are obviously capped at 1 and so on
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calyxa: it won't go below 0.00001, for opaque. on the upper limit side, no, I don't think so.
calyxa: hola, Ken
02.11.14 artistken: que pasa ?
02.11.21 bryn: so it's probably whatever the maximum floating point number is then
calyxa: I once made a very very mountainous planet entirely enclosed in a _very_ transparent ocean...
calyxa: yeah
02.11.37 bryn: for a nice volumetric fog?
calyxa: Ken, here's the set of diagrams for tonight - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/watervox/
02.11.57 artistken: cool handouts! I love it!
calyxa: :)
02.12.34 methametric: stoopid dish
calyxa: not a volumetric fog so much as a strange glassy coating... kinda like a catseye marble.
02.12.41 bryn: though personally I think the handouts are off topic
02.12.48 methametric: lol!
calyxa: I'm dangerous when I get off topic.
02.13.17 bryn: right, back to what caly doesn't know about water.
calyxa: or everything I could brute force out of the program and Craig.
02.14.09 methametric: :: begins rambling about the effects of the Ahmish (did I spell that right?) on Middle East relations::
calyxa: no
calyxa: only one h. the second one.
02.14.41 methametric: k :-)
02.14.54 bryn: so caly did you check out that dreamscape plug in for 3ds max somebody sent to the list?
calyxa: there were Amish in John Varley's latest book, The Golden Globe...
calyxa: no - I don't have 3ds max, for one...
02.15.19 methametric: :-P
calyxa: they were living on the moon and there was some comment about how it's OK for them to be on the moon because the moon was mentioned in the Bible.
02.16.07 methametric: <==<*)))<===|==0 = food
02.16.09 methametric: lol!
02.16.18 bryn: well, even if I did I wouldn't forsake mojo, but my point was the most interesting thing about that program was the ocean, and their animation of waves seemed to be intelligent rather than adding noise in the 4th dimension
02.16.41 bryn: how did they get to the moon without technology? it's a long way to walk
calyxa: that wasn't ever explained... the story all took place centuries after humanity had been kicked off Earth by the invading aliens.
02.17.21 methametric: maybe god was finally repaying them for their undying devotion?
calyxa: yeah, the whole 'noise in the 4th dimension' thing hasn't ever made a whole lot of sense on the angle of 'accurately modeling things like waves and continental drift and such'
02.18.35 methametric: who wants an early snatch at my challenge planet!
02.18.38 methametric: ?
calyxa: I always like a new planet
02.19.31 bryn: wouldn't that be cheating?
02.19.31 methametric: no one has to know... :-)
02.19.31 bryn: if so, I'm in :) if not ...it doesn't have the thrill :)
02.19.31 artistken: :-)
02.19.58 methametric: I stole some displacements from Shive
calyxa: oh! I should upload another displacement 'diagram' (set of sample renders...)
calyxa: the smallest feature size on the underlying terrain makes a _huge_ difference!
02.20.35 bryn: so check out the oceans at the bottom of this page http://www.afterworks.com/DSBfirst.htm
02.20.49 bryn: huge difference in looks, or in render time?
calyxa: looks.
02.21.53 bryn: I'd definitely be interested to see those displacement sample renders
calyxa: if I can find'em... sigh.
calyxa: Sherlock, save me!
02.22.48 bryn: why can't I find the openapple-f on my xp machine?
methametric has quit MojoVox.
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/sfs-dis.jpg
calyxa: huh, we lost Gavin again...
02.24.34 artistken: hey "C" , as I promised. Proof of the illusive Mojo Chicken
02.24.36 artistken: http://www.artistken.com/Z_Images/Working/MojoStuff/MojoChicken.jpg
02.25.16 bryn: so that's sfs of 0, 0.42 and 4.2?
calyxa: heh.
02.25.25 bryn: what's the lfs of the terrian underneath?
calyxa: ya.
calyxa: 42000
calyxa: and the lfs of the displacement texture itself is 100
02.26.19 bryn: so it's 0, 1/10000th and 1/1000th
calyxa: ya, but I also tried similar w/ 1 and 10 and 42... anything larger than about 1/10,000th cleaned it up tons.
02.27.31 artistken: been tryin to give a go to the Feb Gen Challenge
02.27.38 bryn: do you have a pic of what the terrain looks like without displacement?
calyxa: no. it's very flat, as that displacement is quite extreme and localized to spots w/ a blend using sparse conv...
02.28.08 artistken: in my so called spare time LOL
02.28.29 bryn: my problem with those gen challenges is that I have so much fun tweaking the terrains
calyxa: don't have the right codec to play the ocean anims from that page, Bryn and I don't want to fight w/ it now...
02.29.18 bryn: no worries, I don't know what codec it is, but I guess I got it somehow. not really even in the realm of on topic anyway
02.29.20 artistken: they look not bad but not much better then the Psunami plugin for After effects
02.30.09 artistken: http://www.artistken.com/Z_Images/Working/MojoStuff/Challenge_808_04.jpg
calyxa: so anyway... I found out and Craig confirmed that it's possible to get most any water color turning murkiness to 0 and only messing w/ the water opacity parameters... and I told him that it's possible to get almost any water color turning murkiness up and setting the water opacity to 'clear' (0.01, 0.01, 0.01) and messing only w/ the murk opacity parameters.
02.30.27 bryn: is 808 the feb gen contest terrain?
calyxa: yeah
02.31.31 artistken: so ultimately you can make water color either way
02.31.35 bryn: that's a nice color palette you've put on that planet ken, it looks like there are lots of smooth glassy lumps in the foreground that have been smashed by meteorites
calyxa: so really, it only makes sense to have different water opacity and murk opacity if you drive murkiness w/ a texture or function so that both colors eventually show up. right.
02.32.15 artistken: ats the way I do it
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02.33.17 bryn: so can you explain to me what murk opacity is? is it like how see through the mud particles floating in the water are?
calyxa: heya, Bruce
02.33.23 pushinfaders: hello folks
02.33.27 bryn: how-dee
02.33.29 artistken: part of the water is a clear color & part is a murk color, with varying opacities
calyxa: yeah, what Ken said.
calyxa: kinda...
02.34.08 artistken: its like wher the Rio Negro meets the Amazon!
02.34.11 bryn: so basically it allows you to start with a base color and vary and additive color, rather than varying just the base color
calyxa: the higher your murkiness parameter is, the more the water gets its color from the murk opacity
calyxa: they're both absorptive colors and they get combined w/ the formula waterop + murkiness*murkop
02.34.56 bryn: wouldn't it make more sense for the the higher the murk opacity the more it gets its color from the murkiness color?
02.35.15 bryn: just naming I guess
calyxa: the higher the murkiness, the more the water takes its color from the murk opacity.
calyxa: and the more scattering goes on regardless of the scattering param.
calyxa: Bruce - here's the handout for tonight - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/watervox/
02.36.07 artistken: btw howdy PF!
02.36.10 bryn: so I guees I'm hung up on the fact that opacity doesn't make sense as a color value to me. just like I never really understood why glow is a color not an amount
calyxa: glow is a color because you can glow blue even if your underlying diffuse color is red.
calyxa: same w/ transparency being a color.
02.36.53 bryn: but what controls how much glow there is?
02.37.05 bryn: how can you be transparent blue?
02.37.09 pushinfaders: Thanks caly
calyxa: transparent blue lets all blue through and no red through and no green through.
02.37.30 bryn: oh, gotcha
calyxa: amount of glow comes from how much red, green and/or blue there is.
02.37.54 bryn: that's what I like about mojovox, there's usually at least one "ah-ha" moment every thursday
calyxa: :)
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calyxa: w/b Gavin
02.38.23 bryn: so the amount of glow would be maximum when 255,255,255
calyxa: yeah, and it'd be white.
02.38.43 bryn: so gavin, dialling in on a cell modem?
02.39.22 methametric: nah, I get my connection through my dish
02.39.29 bryn: so to make a realistic ocean, you want the transparency to be blue
02.39.37 bryn: oh, is it raining?
02.39.41 methametric: it tends to be flaky when it's stormy or windy
calyxa: you want it to absorb lots of red and a little green...
02.41.25 bryn: right, so mostly blue. So will the ocean ever be volumetric at all? ie would driving the colors based on height (depth) be a useful thing for when you are allowed to go under water, or even for now when you are looking at things that are in varying depths
02.42.11 artistken: :)
calyxa: I often drive murkiness w/ a function based on ocean depth so that water near the coast is clear and blue while water that's deep is opaque and greener...
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calyxa: as for the secret underwater build, I'm pretty sure it's not volumetric, but I haven't done extensive testing w/ it.
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calyxa: quick, tie him down!
02.43.07 methametric: :: blows steam out of ears ::
02.43.37 artistken: her use the IP super glue!
02.44.20 methametric: <* ,, ,, )
calyxa: so, this is top sekrit! - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/xxxxxxxxxxxxx (and buggy... but what are ya gonna do...)
02.45.01 bryn: cool
02.45.07 bryn: is that doc in there?
calyxa: in the belly of the beast...
02.45.18 artistken: the "look" of water is very much POV dependant
02.45.29 methametric: hella cool
02.46.08 pushinfaders: POV and lighting for sure Ken
02.46.34 bryn: quick every make lots of off topic comments to scroll the sekrit off the page before any bystanders see!
calyxa: hee hee
calyxa: or I can just delete the file and/or excise the comment from the transcript before posting it...
02.47.16 bryn: you know we ought to get a mojo-users group together to fund new features that everybody except certain magazines can have
calyxa: heh!
02.47.46 methametric: w00t!
02.47.49 bryn: I'd chip in for sure
02.48.05 methametric: my grass looks like grass!
calyxa: yay!
02.48.21 pushinfaders: or we can just kidnap the entire programing staff
calyxa: oh yeah, in that top sekrit underwater build, the weasel grass is in there... heh heh.
02.48.51 bryn: my grass is ass or is that my ass is grass, hmm. I always get little pointy artifact farms when I'm attempting grass
calyxa: 'cept that Craig is in New Zealand and has, shall we say, some minor legal issues keeping him out of the states...
02.49.10 methametric: uh-oh
02.49.24 bryn: is there an entire person to kidnap?
calyxa: there's actually three - Craig, Brian and Julian.
02.49.46 artistken: i'm holding my ears, i'm holding my ears repeat repeat
02.50.03 bryn: are they full time?
02.50.03 methametric: I just used a sh*t load of sparse convolution fractals together
02.50.09 methametric: blended
02.50.12 methametric: bah
02.50.18 pushinfaders: that'll be slow
02.50.27 artistken: fer sure
calyxa: I think so. Kiwis are cheap because of the exchange rate.
02.50.54 methametric: it's slow as hell! unless you have a pimped out G4!
02.50.58 methametric: lol
02.51.10 bryn: hmm I didn't see that on apple's ordering page :)
02.51.22 methametric: it's gold plated :-)