Exploration: as in all things, you must make your own way through life

Exploration : Calyxa
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docmojo has joined Exploration
01.57.32 Calyxa: heya, Doc
01.57.45 docmojo: hERY!
01.57.45 Calyxa: no-one's here...
01.57.56 docmojo: I HATE computers.
01.58.02 Calyxa: don't we all...
01.58.04 docmojo: Did I ever tell you that?
01.58.13 Calyxa: I've heard a lot of that going around lately...
01.59.25 Calyxa: this got announced rather late, it'll be interesting to see if anyone shows...
01.59.42 docmojo: Yeah, yeah, few do--to date!
02.00.07 Calyxa: two weeks ago wasn't a bad turnout...
02.00.27 docmojo: Yeah, them was teh good ol' days...
02.00.39 docmojo: :-)
02.00.48 docmojo: I see.
02.01.01 Calyxa: yup -- hmm, where's Dave, speaking of good ol' days...
02.01.16 docmojo: I'm on the phone with Hawkfyr...
02.01.26 Calyxa: cool, I got my votes in earlier today
bryce has joined Exploration
02.01.44 bryce: hey mo
02.01.44 Calyxa: ya hoo
02.02.03 docmojo: Hey, Bryce!
02.02.04 bryce: dem chat is way more exciing than this channel
02.02.14 Calyxa: not since I left, it isn't
02.02.25 docmojo: What's a DEM?
02.02.38 bryce: I heard the russian weren't cheap enough for you guys
02.02.54 bryce: export them
02.02.59 docmojo: Naw--they COMMIES.
02.03.09 docmojo: We HATE COMMIES.
02.03.20 bryce: not all of us
02.03.22 docmojo: Why you think we got all those miss-isles?
02.03.24 Calyxa: but we'll take their money
02.03.38 docmojo: They ain't got none.
02.03.47 bryce: the commie have more missles
02.03.49 docmojo: We invented money.
02.03.55 docmojo: Commies got none.
02.04.00 Calyxa: I thought the Chinese invented money
02.04.11 docmojo: BullSHIT,
02.04.17 Calyxa: the ancient, pre-communist Chinese, that is
02.04.23 bryce: new zeand inverted money
thosk has joined Exploration
02.04.24 docmojo: Missiles cost MONEY>
02.04.29 docmojo: We got all teh MONEY>
02.04.30 Calyxa: hey, thosk!
02.04.37 thosk: Hy Calyxa!
02.04.37 Calyxa: look, Mo, a _user_
02.04.38 docmojo: Hey, thosk!
02.04.43 thosk: Hi Doc!
02.04.53 docmojo: doin't a little political science here.
02.04.55 docmojo: ;-)
02.05.09 thosk: how so?
02.05.17 Calyxa: diss'in russians
02.05.22 thosk: hmmm.
02.05.26 docmojo: Oh, COMMIES and MISSILES.
02.05.33 docmojo: Who's got MORE>
02.05.42 thosk: commies?
02.05.53 docmojo: "Communists."
02.05.56 docmojo: COMMIES.
ster has joined Exploration
02.06.06 bryce: commies are the good guys
02.06.09 docmojo: PINKOS.
02.06.11 Calyxa: hey, ster
02.06.16 thosk: Right... you're wondering who's got more commies?
02.06.17 docmojo: COMMIE!
02.06.17 ster: hello
02.06.26 docmojo: Bryce you work for PAY.
02.06.28 ster: caly - i've got something for you
02.06.39 Calyxa: oooh, a present for me? goody goody!
02.06.45 docmojo: If you're a COMMIE, I don'r have to PAY you!
02.06.47 bryce: ?
02.06.52 ster: i've removed many of the spikes
02.06.56 docmojo: Hey, Ster!
02.06.59 ster: sup
02.07.01 bryce: commies work for pay
02.07.17 ster: hi doc
02.07.20 Calyxa: I could have removed the spikes, but I thought that was against the rules of the weekly challenge
02.07.31 ster: that was an old file
02.07.34 docmojo: "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us."
02.07.43 docmojo: That's what teh COMMIES say.
02.07.51 bryce: i'm going back to the comunist dem chat channel
02.07.52 ster: i think you'll like this variation
02.07.54 thosk: As long as the new versions keep coming out, I don't mind who pays who...
02.08.05 docmojo: What's a DEM?
02.08.05 ster: hey doc:::: question
bryce has left channel Exploration
02.08.17 docmojo: Fire away!
Bernard has joined Exploration
02.08.23 Calyxa: hi, Bernard
02.08.31 docmojo: Hey, Bernard!
02.08.33 Bernard: Hi everybody
02.08.34 ster: how come the water in mw doesn't reflect the land forms?
02.08.42 ster: like bryce
02.08.43 Calyxa: >duck!<
02.08.52 docmojo: Ha ha--'cause we didn'thave TIME.
02.08.56 ster: ok
02.09.04 ster: killer review in 3d wordl
02.09.06 ster: world
02.09.10 ster: 4/5 stars
02.09.10 docmojo: Okay: Bryce is a raytracer.
02.09.21 ster: yes i kno
02.09.24 docmojo: Raytracers are incredibly simple to code up.
02.09.35 ster: hybrid?
02.09.46 docmojo: All my research was done in a ray tracer for that reason.
02.09.54 docmojo: But: they're SLOOOOOOW.
02.10.02 ster: that i do know
02.10.12 docmojo: MW isn't a ray tracer.
02.10.12 ster: but we like reflections
02.10.30 docmojo: It's much faster than a raytracer, for what it does.
02.10.38 ster: agreed
02.10.42 docmojo: REFECTIONS SUCK.
02.10.46 ster: hahahahaha
02.10.48 docmojo: (Just kidding)
02.10.56 ster: realism?
02.11.18 ster: it can reflect the atmosphere
02.11.26 docmojo: I was always chagrined that people always liked teh water in my (proto-Bryce) images best.
02.11.52 ster: i guess i can always export a terrain :(
02.12.14 docmojo: So: Reflections are good & Important, bur INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE in the MojoWorld way of working.
02.12.22 ster: ok
02.12.46 docmojo: Sign up for a PhD in computer graphics with me, and we'll go over teh details.
02.12.55 docmojo: It's that hard and complex.
02.12.56 docmojo: No shit.
02.13.13 ster: ok ok......
02.13.18 ster: i'm ducking
02.13.22 docmojo: BACK OFF< JACK!
02.13.24 Calyxa: heh heh
02.13.25 ster: hahah
02.13.32 docmojo: (Heh heh)
02.13.59 ster: i wouldn't even thought of it --- but it was mentioned as a con in the 3d world article
02.14.04 thosk: Then how about an option to do ray rtracing (slowly) when we want to pay the cost for reflections?
02.14.06 docmojo: (My recent experiences with these TOOLS we call "computers"
02.14.15 docmojo: have left me in a rather bitter state.
02.14.26 Calyxa: a raytracing plugin for MojoWorld would re-define sleepware as 'hibernation-ware'
02.14.29 docmojo: F____s.)
02.14.48 docmojo: We'll do it.
02.14.54 docmojo: No question.
02.15.10 ster: gotcha---
02.15.11 docmojo: But the HATE MAIL will be fast and dense when we do!
02.15.26 thosk: Not if you market it properly <g>
02.15.41 Calyxa: "slowest renderer on the planet"
02.15.58 thosk: No, "see how fast we are when we *don't* ray trace...
02.16.07 ster: my 4x6ft is coming along swimmingly
02.16.20 ster: more than 50% complete
02.16.37 docmojo: Cool, Ster!
02.16.42 ster: tiles
02.16.46 docmojo: Here's what's wierd:
02.16.51 ster: it all comes back to tiles
02.17.01 docmojo: My ratytracer (protoMojo)
02.17.02 ster: craig's idea
02.17.13 docmojo: did what MW could NEVER do
02.17.20 docmojo: in about 36 hours.
02.17.37 thosk: "speed" "realism" "cost" you can pick at most 2.
02.17.40 docmojo: So, we'll revisit ray tracing and do a head-to-head test.
02.17.59 ster: network rendering......................
02.18.05 Calyxa: like NASA's, 'faster' 'better' 'cheaper'...
02.18.19 ster: just like hollywood effects
02.18.21 docmojo: My QAEB ray tracing algorithm is very CPU intensive.
02.18.33 docmojo: Uses essentially zero memory.
02.18.40 ster: mw is expensive enough
02.18.43 ster: :)
02.18.50 docmojo: and is pretty much flawless (in my limited tests).
02.19.44 thosk: mw flawless?
02.19.54 docmojo: The problem with ray tracing is the low, nearly horizontal rays.
02.20.11 Calyxa: divide by zero?
02.20.15 thosk: mw gets slow with those rays too, I notice.
02.20.25 docmojo: They require evaluation of *every* point in the terrain (or water) they pass over.
02.20.28 docmojo: OUCH!
02.20.35 ster: right
02.21.00 thosk: sorry, was it something I said?
02.21.08 ster: hahaha
02.21.20 thosk: (Always room for improvement... I don't mean to be harsh)
02.21.48 docmojo: Yes, any time you have a lot of gemery (read: mtns) in the line of sight, you have to deal with all of it.
02.21.48 docmojo: Very slow.
02.21.54 docmojo: I meant "geometry"
02.21.58 thosk: stands to reason.
02.22.04 docmojo: "stuff to deal with"
02.22.20 docmojo: Thosk: ABSOLUTELY!
02.23.17 thosk: Believe me, I know all about "slow"... remember I've made my own weak attempt at coding up renderers.
02.23.35 docmojo: Here's teh catch: Rays refelcted at a very low angle--nearly horizontal--take a lot of work to see where tehy hit.
02.23.52 ster: http://www.salesstudios.com/mountainsAlt5.zip
02.23.56 ster: here ya go caly
02.24.05 Calyxa: thx
02.24.08 docmojo: MW is REALLY fast, for all the work it has to to do.
02.24.16 ster: """"again-- not perfect_____
02.24.52 thosk: Mindbogglingly fast, if you ask me. I'm very VERY impressed (again spoken by someone who's dabbled in the coding side)
02.25.06 ster: MW ROCKS
02.25.08 docmojo: Thanks, thosk!
02.25.11 ster: :-)
02.25.32 docmojo: MW really is a sterling piece of technology, even if I do say so myself..
02.25.43 ster: and you should
02.26.13 docmojo: And it's just a start. There's a lot more to come!
02.27.14 docmojo: Sneak Leak: We plan (hope?) to release 1.1 on Monday.
02.27.24 docmojo: "Watch me eat my words."
02.27.26 thosk: woo woo!
02.27.28 ster: liked ur qtvr caly --- that lake is awesome
02.27.35 Calyxa: thanks
02.27.37 ster: bug free?
02.27.37 docmojo: But I figure we're among friends here...
02.27.48 ster: :__)
02.28.00 docmojo: But of course!!! >;^)
02.28.16 docmojo: "Our softeware has no bugs."
02.28.21 ster: features?
02.28.23 docmojo: Heh hehh.
02.28.33 docmojo: No features, either!!!
02.28.35 thosk: At least no "unknown" bugs that you aren't aware of. <g>
02.28.49 Calyxa: I probably shouldn't say anything about Craig's comment to me on being in a near hardware-smashing mood yesterday, huh.
02.28.50 docmojo: There you go, thosk!
02.29.10 docmojo: But those are "features," and I clam ew have none of those, either!
02.29.15 ster: caly-=u loose something?
02.29.18 Bernard: Is the big fonts patch also usable for 1.1?
02.29.46 Calyxa: am I loose? that's a rather personal question
02.29.50 docmojo: Gee, bernard, good question. I dunno...
02.29.55 ster: ?
02.30.02 docmojo: "Probably," it is.
02.30.13 Bernard: Ok. I'll try it.
02.30.24 ster: i didn't say that!
02.30.39 ster: i meant did you loose a mw file?
02.30.47 docmojo: Pls. send me an email Bernard, at musgrave@pandromeda.com, to remind me to remind the engineers to "make it so."
02.30.53 Calyxa: why, did you find one?
02.31.07 ster: maybe
02.31.59 Calyxa: I've lost no files lately... (knock wood)...
02.32.05 ster: good....
02.32.14 docmojo: Soooo, if no one has questions about MojoWorld, perhps it's time for a lecture on my Ble Rocket research...
02.32.35 ster: what?
02.32.41 docmojo: That's "Blue Rockets."
02.32.48 Calyxa: I want to know how Bob Buttery made those sentinels...
02.33.05 docmojo: Yeah!
02.33.20 Calyxa: I know they're some kind of sparse convolution offset distortion, but my attempts have been frustratingly wrong
02.33.54 Calyxa: OK, well I'm _guessing_ that they're some sort of sparse convolution offset distortion...
02.33.56 docmojo: What's eh url for an image, Caly?
02.34.03 Calyxa: just a sec...
02.34.17 ster: i think i remember him saying they were.
02.34.42 Calyxa: w/ a really wide camera angle to get them tilted-looking...
02.34.44 docmojo: So: Blue is the hardest color to get in fireworks.
02.35.15 docmojo: Wierdly, blue flames must b every low temperature.
02.35.17 ster: magnesium burns blue
02.35.28 ster: i think
02.35.39 ster: mebe white
02.35.48 docmojo: O/w the blackbody radiation makes it white (o red).
02.35.59 docmojo: Very white.
02.36.02 Calyxa: here's Bob's sentinels pic - http://www.3dcommune.com/3d/galview.mv?MojoWorld+5iw4ocPGA+1007908072
02.36.13 docmojo: VERY hot, Mg flames.
02.36.37 ster: old flash bulb filament
02.37.08 docmojo: Yep. hotter and whiter than Al.
02.37.42 docmojo: Ooo, da Stacks Bos, da Stacks!
02.37.57 Calyxa: is that cool or what!
02.38.05 docmojo: Majorly!
02.38.13 docmojo: Majorly!
02.38.49 ster: sales picking up?
02.38.51 Calyxa: guess I was confused on the name.. there's another pic named Sentinel that is from the same planet, I'm pretty sure
bryce has joined Exploration
02.39.11 ster: hello bryce
02.39.13 Calyxa: w/b Bryce
02.39.17 bryce: hey there
02.39.22 docmojo: Sales are pretty steady.
02.39.26 docmojo: Hey, Bryce!
02.39.28 Bernard: Hi Bryce
02.39.32 bryce: hi all
02.39.34 docmojo: What's a DEM???
02.39.38 Calyxa: ya hoo
02.39.43 ster: digital elevation model?
02.39.52 ster: gov't file
02.40.05 bryce: digital elevation model usgs, you know
02.40.21 docmojo: BAD STER--You're not supposed to answer questiosn for Bryce!
02.40.28 ster: sorry
02.40.47 Calyxa: at least not with straight answers
02.40.53 docmojo: I was just bustin' Bryce's you-know-what...
02.41.07 bryce: ster can be my trusty side kick
02.41.10 Calyxa: takin' the piss out of 'im
02.41.10 ster: 10 lb balls
02.41.23 docmojo: Or you his, B.
02.41.30 ster: sancho panza
02.42.20 docmojo: Trivia Q: Anyone recogniz the IP address 64.69.98.245?
02.42.23 ster: sorry thought this was trivial pursuit
02.42.39 docmojo: My new firewall is blocking 'em.
02.42.58 ster: i couldn't access it
02.43.16 ster: hey doc is speedy satellite now
02.43.27 ster: how's the transmission
02.43.31 docmojo: Friggin' hackers are thich as gnats anymore.
02.43.33 Calyxa: nslookup says p4-1.core01.nycmny.CTCCom.net
02.43.44 docmojo: Like A lqaeda, but harder to bomb.
02.44.09 docmojo: That eman anything to you, Caly?
02.44.21 docmojo: "mean"
02.44.27 Calyxa: something in New York, is all I can guess...
02.44.48 docmojo: Hmm... Not pleasnt to speculate...
02.45.35 docmojo: oKAY FOLKS, YOU HAVE 20 MINUTES TO GRILL ME WITH MOJOTRIVIA.
02.45.42 docmojo: FIRE AT WILL!
02.45.56 bryce: whats a fractal
02.46.06 Calyxa: like a DEM, only different
02.46.19 docmojo: "Something you cannot understand." Next???
02.46.28 thosk: when are you going to let me try my hands at writing a plugin?
02.46.30 Calyxa: when do we get to use our own bitmaps as sparse convolution kernels?
02.46.42 docmojo: Whoah!
02.47.05 docmojo: Okay, thosk: Come January, we'll start
02.47.14 bryce: does anyone have an app that reads obj opacity maps?
02.47.15 docmojo: writing up our SDK/API.
02.47.22 docmojo: "Real Soon Now."
02.47.45 thosk: I'll be waiting <g>
02.48.23 docmojo: Caly: That's a though one, that requires some surprisingly fancy maths--i mean REALLY fancy--to solve.
02.48.34 docmojo: But: "We have the technology."
02.48.43 docmojo: Hopefully in 2.0...
02.49.20 Calyxa: I assume the kernels that are there are the ones easiest to implement mathematically?
02.49.20 ster: how far away is 2.0?
02.49.32 docmojo: V 1.1 has transparency--largely fo Poser users.
02.49.39 docmojo: So PLEASE test it!
02.50.04 ster: transparency in materials?
02.50.07 Calyxa: ya
02.50.14 Calyxa: right under 'glow'...
02.50.21 bryce: yep I'm doing maps right now
02.50.21 docmojo: we want to realeas X.0 versioan in August, at SIGGRAPH.
02.50.36 docmojo: (Watch me EAT THOSE WORDS.) >;^)
02.50.54 ster: yea i see the transparency
02.51.12 bryce: does anyone have an app that reads obj opacity maps?
02.51.28 bryce: does anyone have an app that reads obj tarnsperancy maps?
02.51.35 bryce: soory
02.51.42 bryce: does anyone have an app that reads obj transperancy maps?
02.51.49 docmojo: S'arright, mate!
02.52.10 docmojo: Friggin' Kiwis.
02.52.30 Calyxa: but they're so cute and fuzzy
02.52.33 docmojo: Their country is the best kept secret on Earht.
02.52.35 bryce: capalist pigs
02.52.43 Calyxa: not after LOTR comes out it isn't
02.52.54 docmojo: And they're alll so NICE!
02.53.01 docmojo: (except Bryce)
02.53.11 Calyxa: yeah, he's a meanie-face alright.
02.53.24 docmojo: Oh, God, Caly--you should hace warned me!
02.53.39 bryce: You should come for the traditional american bash
02.53.42 Calyxa: I've only known for a couple months...
02.53.58 docmojo: I shouldn't have put all my $$ into Pandromeda--I should have bought that rocket ranch!
02.53.59 Calyxa: about LOTR, anyway...
02.54.04 docmojo: (in NZ)
02.54.27 bryce: LOTR ?
02.54.33 Calyxa: Lord of The Rings
02.54.49 bryce: oh I'm in the last one
02.54.49 docmojo: Bryce: Isn't it traditional to bash Americans everywhere, all the time?
02.55.04 docmojo: You sure are, Bryce-boy.
02.55.14 bryce: suppose its not just NZ
02.55.26 docmojo: Why's your parents give yo usuch a funny name, anyway? >;^)
02.55.32 Calyxa: who/what do you play, Bryce?
02.55.35 bryce: I was a dead soilder
02.55.37 docmojo: (you don't have to answer that!!!)
02.55.42 Calyxa: cool
02.55.46 docmojo: Me, too.
rfmgraphics has joined Exploration
02.55.52 Calyxa: an empty bottle. fancy costuming there
02.55.55 Calyxa: hey, Ringo
02.55.57 ster: hiya
02.55.58 rfmgraphics: hello everyone
02.56.03 bryce: gongorian soilder
02.56.09 docmojo: My first name is Foret--Like Forrest Gump, only misspelled.
02.56.16 rfmgraphics: Bryce, I like the export stuff.
02.56.18 docmojo: Hey, rfm!
02.56.31 docmojo: "Bryce sucks!"
02.56.36 bryce: cool your giving it at good test out
02.56.41 docmojo: Oh, not OUR bryce!
02.56.45 rfmgraphics: I did an export and lload it into Carrara as an OBJ.
02.57.21 rfmgraphics: works ok fine
02.57.24 rfmgraphics: as OBJ.
02.57.31 rfmgraphics: texttures.
02.57.38 bryce: can carrara load obj transperancy maps
02.57.44 rfmgraphics: I'll the other formats.
02.57.53 rfmgraphics: it does.
02.57.56 rfmgraphics: Bryce.
02.58.15 docmojo: Bryce: The Forrest I was maned after died in WWII, flying b-24's against the Nazis.
02.58.17 docmojo: Cool.
02.58.51 bryce: is that your relation
02.58.57 docmojo: "Named after," not Maned after!"
02.59.10 Calyxa: so, that hair is a hand-me-down?
02.59.26 rfmgraphics: :-)
02.59.27 docmojo: Yes, I'm teh son of Forrest Gump.
02.59.46 docmojo: "I'm not a smart man."
02.59.51 docmojo: (just twisted)
03.00.15 thosk: "I just decided one day to render..."
03.00.17 ster: hows sales
03.00.41 docmojo: Folks" Here's how to get reflections in MojoWorld (for the time being):
03.00.43 rfmgraphics: THe Mojoworld exported terrain are a lot better than the Bryce ones.
03.00.48 bryce: ringo can you send me a obj model with a transperany map int it
03.01.10 ster: i'm listening
03.01.11 docmojo: export MW terrains, textures and image bacldrops to other programs.
03.01.13 rfmgraphics: from Carrara.
03.01.27 docmojo: THEY can provide the reflections, etc.
03.01.29 bryce: yep
03.01.32 ster: alright
03.01.35 docmojo: (Until MW 2.0).
03.01.37 Calyxa: that sounds more like how to get reflections out of MW...
03.01.37 rfmgraphics: Ok ,will do Bryce.
03.01.48 bryce: thanx ringo
03.01.52 rfmgraphics: Let me get one ready for you.
03.02.06 bryce: cool
03.02.26 docmojo: rfmgraphics: Why do you way that MW terrain exports are better than Bryce?
03.02.33 docmojo: (I had a hand in both...)
03.03.09 bryce: bryce has limited detail you can export
03.03.23 docmojo: And MW doesn't...
03.03.40 rfmgraphics: the resolution are much better Doc.
03.03.42 bryce: bryce 4.0 dems are only 128 * 128
03.03.51 docmojo: "If you have the cycles, Honey, I've got the detail!"
03.03.54 rfmgraphics: that is correct Bryce.
03.04.10 docmojo: Really! I didn't know that!
03.04.15 bryce: you can do anything depended on file format limits