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MaterialGirl : calyxa
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calyxa: hey
01.17.45 Pushinfaders: Hi Caly..big croud tonite eh?
calyxa: yeah. guess I never should have posted all those notices.
01.18.24 Pushinfaders: I ment to post one, but got side tracked, when the car didn't start!!
calyxa: I had support day from hell yesterday - people crawling out of the woodwork with all kinds of whacked problems...
01.19.14 Pushinfaders: Bummer
calyxa: on the one hand, yes - but on the other hand, it's good, 'cuz it means there are more people out there banging on things.
01.19.40 Pushinfaders: I'd say something, but I'd be a smart ass if I did
01.20.13 Pushinfaders: :-)
calyxa: my super-long render of chrome-plated termite cooling mounds is 90% done redoing blocks - yay!
calyxa: but the terrain is still ripped open, so oh well....
01.23.10 Pushinfaders: Cool, I haven't had a chance to mess with the tutorial yet... I plugged in some library skys to Huduce for Anacroplayer..he's got the T-porter pro..and wanted a different sky..so I did 6 !!!
calyxa: heh, cool
01.24.13 Pushinfaders: Of course the secret motive is to show him how easy it is to do with the generator !!
calyxa: someone made a comment about my 'organically disgusting' pic looking like cooled lava, which sparked an inspiration...
calyxa: you've seen Bob's sky pack, right?
01.24.47 Pushinfaders: right
calyxa: ok. hang on while I upload my lava thing to show ya...
calyxa: got several... here was the first - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spablava.jpg
calyxa: Craig's reaction was, "get rid of the magenta clouds and it'll be sweeeeet"
01.29.11 Pushinfaders: Sweet....but I agree with Craig..the cloud color doen't fit the rest...I like the glow effect from the rocks
calyxa: the reason I made the clouds magenta was because I wanted to make 'smoke rings' coming out of each lava tube and the best way I thought of to make'em visible was to make'em an ugly bright color
calyxa: in this one, I got the clouds lined up right and they're no longer magenta - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spablavapuff.jpg
01.29.53 Pushinfaders: Lime green !!! Ha ha Ha
01.30.38 Pushinfaders: That's better, reminds me of the glow effect in Terragen
calyxa: (heh, funny you should say that... wait 'til you see the latest 'abomination' version)
calyxa: (lime green, that is...)
calyxa: here's the abomination - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spablavastiny.jpg
01.31.48 Pushinfaders: That's totally wacked !!! Cool stuff !!
calyxa: no reaction from Craig on that one, but I'm way over quota on "replies from Craig" today. :)
calyxa: you know what the lime green thing is??
01.32.40 Pushinfaders: Looks kinda Phalic to me
calyxa: but do you have a guess as to how I made it?
calyxa: (did I ever show you my 'on topic porn' gallery??)
01.33.22 Pushinfaders: no
calyxa: no for the guess or for the gallery or both? ;)
01.33.38 Pushinfaders: perhaps once I think..
calyxa: the lime green thing is the _ocean_
01.33.56 Pushinfaders: hmmmmm
bryn has joined MaterialGirl
calyxa: hey, Bryn!
01.34.42 bryn: hey hey hey
01.34.51 bryn: what's the shakes?
calyxa: gotta show Bryn the lava sequence
01.35.06 Pushinfaders: As long as there is no one else here, i wanna run one thing by you... xxx xxx xxxxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxx xxx xxxx xxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxxx?
01.35.14 Pushinfaders: Hi Bryn
01.35.17 bryn: hi bruce
01.35.38 bryn: congrats on winning this month, you did some awesome work
calyxa: xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx... xxxxx xxxx xxxx, xxx xxx xxxxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx...
01.35.56 Pushinfaders: Thanks Bryn...
01.36.54 Pushinfaders: xxxx xxxx xx, xx xxx xxxxxxxxxx x xxxxxxxx, xxx xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxx..(xx xxxx)...xxx xxx xxxxx xxxx xx xxxxx "xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxx"
01.37.24 Pushinfaders: I'll try to screen them first...
01.37.47 Pushinfaders: so you don't have to get involved, unless you want to
01.38.20 Pushinfaders: I'm not expecting anything ground breaking...
01.38.29 bryn: so, how come it's so quiet tonight?
calyxa: my opinion on that all is - xx'x xxxxx xxx xxxxxx xxx xxx'x xxxx xxxxx xx xxxxx xxx xxx/xx xxx'x xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxxxx xxx xxxx. xxx xxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx xxx x xxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxx xx xxxx, x xxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx xx xxx xx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx....
calyxa: must have been all those notices I posted, Bryn.
01.39.31 Pushinfaders: well, I mean I'll put any planet file or material or what ever of your in there
calyxa: here's the first pic in the lava sequence - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spablava.jpg
calyxa: heh. maybe I'll send you my latest in this lava series, then.
01.41.15 bryn: is there a naughty mode in the .ini file that I'm missing?
calyxa: why do you ask?
01.42.29 bryn: lava looks naughty :) you seem to have a definite talent for finding the naughty corners of parametric hyperspace
calyxa: heh, you ain't seen nothin' yet.
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spablavapuff.jpg
calyxa: (still nothin' -- it's the one after this one that gets a bit naughtier)
calyxa: see if you can guess how I made the green bits in this last one - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spablavastiny.jpg
01.45.14 Pushinfaders: Actually Caly, the one thing, xxx xxxx xx xxxx xx xxx xxxx xxxx xx the handout from "water Vox" That really explained the water color numbers very well... Other than that... xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxxx... xxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xx xxxx xxxx xxxx...
01.45.17 bryn: the phallus node?
calyxa: sparse convolution
01.45.39 Pushinfaders: ha ha bryn..that's what i said!!
calyxa: it's the ocean!
01.45.55 bryn: no
01.46.08 bryn: that can't be
calyxa: the thing about the water vox handout is it's a ton of teeny images in tables.
01.46.11 bryn: the ocean?
calyxa: yup!
01.46.28 bryn: sparse convolution displacement?
01.46.37 bryn: of translucent green water?
01.47.15 bryn: whuhuh--whuhuh-whuhuh-wacky
calyxa: the displacement on the ocean mat is a combination of the terrain (minus its offset disotortion) and the same sparse convolution that creates the lava towers, but w/ a different curve applied.
calyxa: same w/ the clouds - they use the same sparse convolution as the lava towers in order to create smoke rings that line up w/ the lava towers.
01.48.18 Pushinfaders: That makes sense
01.48.28 Pushinfaders: LFS
01.48.32 bryn: they don't look like a height map of the lava though
calyxa: did you not see my stone roses tutorial? :D
calyxa: there's underlying sparse convolution noise making towers, then there's displacements making the towers all naughty.
01.49.15 bryn: no, I haven't had time to read through it yet
01.49.44 bryn: <hangs head in shame>
01.49.47 Pushinfaders: The stone roses thing gave me some cool ideas..great principals
calyxa: tsk tsk!
calyxa: here's an early top-down view of a tower - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spab-top.jpg
calyxa: 'spab' stands for 'sparse abuse'
01.50.49 Pushinfaders: it's a flower !!
calyxa: yup. and you can get completely inside it
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spab-belly.jpg
calyxa: here's a side view - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spab-side.jpg
01.51.46 Pushinfaders: yep..it's a fractal!!
calyxa: I rendered a qtvr inside one of those things, but it was boring...
01.52.26 bryn: I can see that it's a sparse ring, what kind of basis are you using for the displacement?
calyxa: voronoi, I think.
01.53.13 bryn: with a really non symmetric LFS?
calyxa: it's actually a soft cone w/ a curve applied to it to hollow it out.
calyxa: no -- and I've been thinking about you and your 'gullies down the mountain' question...
calyxa: the input coordinates are surface position - so as the sparse convolution cone goes 'up', it stretches out the features made by the displacement fractal.
01.55.12 bryn: uh..trying to think about that one. just got off the plane so not all 3 cylinders are firing
calyxa: like how you get diamonds out of squares drawn on a sheet of rubber that gets stretched out into a cone
01.55.34 bryn: surface position meaning the planet surface?
calyxa: yup
01.56.22 bryn: looking at the side view, I can see how that might become gullies downt the side of the mountainif the curve didn't hollow out the middle
calyxa: yup
calyxa: just for grins, I do have the other side -http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spab-otherside.jpg
calyxa: I'll bet that dash messed it up http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spab-otherside.jpg
01.58.17 bryn: looks cool
01.58.29 bryn: so is that a parameter bomb?
01.58.31 Pushinfaders: sweet
calyxa: no
calyxa: the entire planet's surface is covered w/ those little buggers
01.59.27 Pushinfaders: How little are they?
01.59.45 bryn: so how is surface position different from world position if the bumps are part of the planet?
calyxa: the last few ones had an LFS of 100. the lava tubes are back up to 1000.
calyxa: for a terrain height function, they're the same.
calyxa: for any other texture, though, the fractal gets evaluated "where it is now"
calyxa: hang on, I think I have a diagram...
calyxa: it's for a color texture, but the same principle applies - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/tutorial/bigT/worldposcolor.jpg
calyxa: the red line is the terrain as it goes through world pos coordinates, the black line is 'surface pos' coordinates
02.04.48 bryn: so surface position is just 2d while world position is 3d?
calyxa: hang on, got another graph... :)
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/tutorial/bigT/worldposgraph.gif
calyxa: that's simplified to 2d. world pos is a cube, surface pos is the surface of the planetary sphere.
02.06.48 bryn: world pos is a cube? that then gets mapped on to a sphere?
calyxa: a point in world pos may be anywhere in that plane, but a point in surface pos will always be on the red circle.
calyxa: no, that gets a sphere intersected w/ it.
daRAT has joined MaterialGirl
calyxa: hi, Rat!
02.10.04 daRAT: hi ya Caly! :]
02.10.10 Pushinfaders: Hey darat!!
02.10.19 daRAT: hi there PF :)
02.10.30 bryn: howdy-ho mr rat
02.10.49 daRAT: hi yaz bryn :P
02.10.57 daRAT: whats going on tonite?
calyxa: I'm spacing them out
02.11.16 Pushinfaders: Caly's showing us dirty Mojo Pic's
02.11.18 bryn: caly's *trying* to explain surface position vs world position
calyxa: not helping much, is it Bryn?
02.11.35 bryn: not your fault.
02.12.01 bryn: I think I understand what surface position is (it's what I thought world position was)
02.12.08 bryn: but I don't get world pos
calyxa: yeah - you and me both.
02.12.15 daRAT: whoa!
02.12.35 daRAT: durty pics!! I didn't know MojoW could do that!!??
calyxa: go back to the color texture picture - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/tutorial/bigT/worldposcolor.jpg
02.12.41 daRAT: *grin*
calyxa: oh sure, Rat - like the flower I mailed you, only more suggestive
calyxa: the color texture permeates world position space
calyxa: the terrain texture creates mountains as represented by the red line
02.13.42 bryn: so I'm looking at a color heightfield with some lines on it that looks like the planet surface (black) and terrain (red)
calyxa: a color texture that permeates world position space -- like soup in a pot.
02.14.08 bryn: ok so how does the color texture generate the red line?
calyxa: it doesn't...
calyxa: the texture that generates the red line isn't shown
02.14.36 bryn: so what is the color texture there for?
calyxa: to show you the difference between world pos and surface pos --
02.15.01 bryn: ???
calyxa: if you are applying that color texture to your terrain (the red line) in world pos, then the point where the vertical black line intersects the red line shows what color the terrain will be at that point...
02.15.55 bryn: oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
02.15.59 bryn: I think I get it now
calyxa: but, if you apply that color texture to the terrain in surface pos, the point where the vertical black line crosses the red line will actually be colored the color where it intersects the horizontal black line
02.17.15 bryn: so using world position on one and only one terrain node , would be the same as surface position, but if you are using world position on displacement you are getting a value from the 3d texture that is higher or lower than the surface pos?
calyxa: right
calyxa: take a look at the sequence of images at the very end of the stone roses tutorial - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/tutorial/materialexamples/stoneroses.html
02.17.41 bryn: daRat, you wouldn't believe the naughty pictures that caly can come up with
02.18.01 bryn: don't hate students who slow down the whole class because they haven't read the material
calyxa: just look at the pictures. they're naughty if you look at'em right.
02.18.34 daRAT: lol, yeah :]
02.19.21 bryn: I meant "don't you hate" rather than "don't hate"
calyxa: it's the very last image (a vignette of four images) in the stone roses tut that talks about world pos, surface pos and undisplaced surface pos.
02.20.00 daRAT: naw not at all, I am lurking until I can inject a comment :P
02.20.01 bryn: yeah, I'm looking at it now
02.20.16 bryn: but it's confusing the issue (or rather me with undisplaced surface pos)
02.21.12 bryn: I just am really thick headed tonight, and I should have read caly's stone rose tutorial. oh well, I'm that bad kid that's takes all the teacher's time
calyxa: in the second one, the cone is all red - it's colored in surface pos. the third one, the displaced bits that are being poked outside of the circle where the sparse conv noise creates a circle on the surface of the planet turn grey!
02.21.24 bryn: So, materials...living in a virtual world...
02.21.54 bryn: ok, I gotcha
02.22.03 bryn: that makes sense
calyxa: cool
02.22.31 bryn: I'll add that one to the bar tab I owe you
calyxa: I still don't have my head wrapped completely around this... and all the inputs mean totally different things when you use'em on things other than the planet (like oceans and cloud layers and stuff)
02.22.56 Pushinfaders: The next round is on me
calyxa: yeah, we should do another BAM UGH sometime soon.
calyxa: next time I go visit Mo, I'll hold you to that, Bruce
02.23.20 bryn: it would be fun to get mojo-ers from everywhere together
02.23.36 Pushinfaders: Mojo camp!!
02.23.46 daRAT: *grin*
calyxa: yeah - as soon as we're rich enough to throw one!
02.24.03 daRAT: for free?
02.24.10 bryn: think of it as a business oporrtunity, you could make money
02.24.12 Pushinfaders: I mised meeting Bryn....we were so close one time
02.24.28 bryn: if you organized it, and paid mo as a "guest speaker" you could make some money off this whole fractal thing
calyxa: I don't think the Mojo user community is yet big enough to support such a venture...
02.24.54 bryn: next time you're in NC bruce, I'll have to buy you a beer
02.25.12 Pushinfaders: I was just there the other week
02.25.14 bryn: you don't know until you ask. I have some freq flier miles I could use
calyxa: tho we should talk more seriously about your photography guy w/ the computer lab... see if we can con him into supplying the space.
calyxa: brb...
02.25.30 bryn: I think I could work that. I'll see him in may
02.26.03 Pushinfaders: Actually Bryn, i was in winston salem last week
02.27.10 Pushinfaders: Do you go there a lot?
02.27.20 Pushinfaders: NC ?
calyxa: back
02.27.31 daRAT: wb
calyxa: my other half has a brother that lives in NC, so I might make it out there someday.
02.27.56 bryn: Is there anything in winston salem other than tobacco companies?
02.28.04 bryn: I am in NC almost more than CA
02.28.12 Pushinfaders: furniture Companys
02.28.23 bryn: ahh, yes, NC is the furniture state isn't it
calyxa: so, Rat, here's one of the naughty pix from earlier - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spablava.jpg
02.28.28 Pushinfaders: Big furniture biz
02.29.10 daRAT: Caly, interesting pic ;]
calyxa: here's another where the magenta clouds are replaced w/ better ones - http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spablavapuff.jpg
02.29.25 daRAT: more stone rose tut stuff?
calyxa: yeah!
calyxa: wait 'til you see the last one in the series, post-puff...
calyxa: http://calyxa.pandromeda.com/private/spablavastiny.jpg
02.30.15 bryn: I think the first one looks like detorso-ed butts and legs
02.30.19 daRAT: *grin* I am still trying to drill horizonatl holes in Mojoworlds :P
calyxa: hey, that's not my fault, Bryn!
02.30.51 daRAT: lol
calyxa: I think the best bet is gonna be the 'narrow canyons w/ altitude driven displacements'
02.31.18 Pushinfaders: Bryn....July 14 thru 19 I'll be in Greensboro NC......Lounge Lizard week
calyxa: narrow _steep walled_ canyons...
02.31.26 daRAT: Caly, nice displacement, I am taking tomoorow off, maybe I'll do some stone roses myself
calyxa: cool!
calyxa: did you catch the one w/ the green thing poking out of the lava tower?
02.32.33 daRAT: I was able to get a sinkhole in mjw, but rotating the p-bomb was a wash, the displacement was only vertical :\
02.32.37 bryn: "the green thing"
02.32.53 daRAT: Caly, I did catch that one :]
02.32.59 bryn: heh
02.33.04 bryn: new euphemism
calyxa: got a guess as to what / how I made that green bit?
02.33.12 bryn: did you guys see Varsity Blues?
calyxa: no...
02.33.28 daRAT: not I
02.33.39 daRAT: Caly a p-bomb perchance?
calyxa: the green bit is the ocean!
02.33.47 daRAT: or a terrain patch?
02.33.47 bryn: maybe it was too intellectual a movie for you folks <grin>
calyxa: no pbombs anywhere in there
02.33.52 daRAT: ahh ha!